Marymog
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Why do Catholics…
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Sabbath (The Lord’s Day)
THE DIDACHE
“But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70])
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 9 [A.D. 110])
JUSTIN MARTYR
“[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . .” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155])
JUSTIN MARTYR
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155])
JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews’ account, forasmuch as the law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn than the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath.” (Homilies on Philippians 10 [A.D. 402])
JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“For though few are now circumcised, yet, by fasting and observing the sabbath with the Jews, they equally exclude themselves from grace... You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul’s words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews? Is it that you fear the Law and abandonment of its letter? But you would not entertain this fear, did you not disparage faith as weak, and by itself powerless to save. A fear to omit the sabbath plainly shows that you fear the Law as still in force; and if the Law is needful, it is so as a whole, not in part, nor in one commandment only; and if as a whole, the righteousness which is by faith is little by little shut out. If you keep the sabbath, why not also be circumcised? And if circumcised, why not also offer sacrifices? If the Law is to be observed, it must be observed as a whole, or not at all.” (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395])
AUGUSTINE
“Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . .” (The Spirit and the Letter 23 [A.D. 412])
GREGORY THE GREAT
“It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2].” (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597])
THE DIDACHE
“But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70])
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 9 [A.D. 110])
JUSTIN MARTYR
“[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . .” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155])
JUSTIN MARTYR
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155])
JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews’ account, forasmuch as the law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn than the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath.” (Homilies on Philippians 10 [A.D. 402])
JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“For though few are now circumcised, yet, by fasting and observing the sabbath with the Jews, they equally exclude themselves from grace... You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul’s words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews? Is it that you fear the Law and abandonment of its letter? But you would not entertain this fear, did you not disparage faith as weak, and by itself powerless to save. A fear to omit the sabbath plainly shows that you fear the Law as still in force; and if the Law is needful, it is so as a whole, not in part, nor in one commandment only; and if as a whole, the righteousness which is by faith is little by little shut out. If you keep the sabbath, why not also be circumcised? And if circumcised, why not also offer sacrifices? If the Law is to be observed, it must be observed as a whole, or not at all.” (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395])
AUGUSTINE
“Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . .” (The Spirit and the Letter 23 [A.D. 412])
GREGORY THE GREAT
“It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2].” (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597])
Ronald Nolette
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I gave you a couple that were taught by the Bishops of romansim for centuries! Start there!
Then Mary remained a virgin
Never had other kids
was assumed bodily into heaven
is called the queen of heaven
Eating meat on friday a mortal sin for centuries.
Purgatory
Limbo
Those are just a few false doctrines we can start on!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And that Truth is????????? C'mon you know what you are trying to do- why not just be real and honest and come out and say it!
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
NO! Jesus is the only savior Jn 14:6 and he is a priest!
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Marymog
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Oh goodness....There you go again with your anti-Catholic pokes. Romanism is a way for you Protestants to poke at The Church. That's fine....I'm used to it and I know what you mean when you use that word in a derogatory manner.
I thought you were well studied? It appears not.
Constantine called a meeting in Nicaea and it was specifically called to make a decision about the heresy of the teaching of Arianism. Over 1,800 CHURCH LEADERS (Bishops) from all over the world were invited but it is believed only a little over 300 showed up.
So, who were those 1,800 Bishops Ronald? Where they men like you who, thru their 48 years of the study of Scripture, made up their own mind about the Truth of Scripture? NO, they were all generally on the same page/practice when it came to Church practice/doctrine/teaching. HOWEVER, Arianism was growing in popularity, even among church leaders, and those who opposed it believed salvation was at stake. So Constantine called them together for them to make a decision on ONE teaching that The Church would teach ALL CHRISIANS. Each individual bishop DID NOT get to do what you do....read the bible and decide on their own what to teach or what is false doctrine. The idea was to have ONE teaching with ONE doctrine approved under ONE authority. Constantine DID NOT create The Catholic Church. He called together the men of The Church to settle doctrine once and for all. The Church was being called "Catholic" long before Constantine called them together to meet.
If your theory were correct, that Constantine started the Catholic Church by calling a council to make a doctrinal decision about Arianism, then why didn't the Catholic Church start in 320 or 321 when the Bishop of Alexandria convoked a council at Alexandria? There were more than one hundred bishops from Egypt and Libya and at that council they anathematized Arius. Wouldn't that have been when The Catholic Church started? And would it be called Alexandrianism according to your theory??
Keeping it real with history and logic.....Mary
Marymog
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The Truth is what I have been saying all along. But let me give you the Readers Digest version of what I am saying: Your lone wolf approach to reading Scripture and interpreting it into YOUR truth while you sit in your basement sipping your morning cup of coffee is OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches. As a matter of fact there is a passage in Scripture that speaks directly to men like you: 2 Peter 3:16.
Marymog
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Taken
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Marymog
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There you go again with your poke at The Church by using what you Protestants consider a derogatory name. How sad for you!
I don't recall you giving me "a couple that were taught" by The Church...but i may have missed it. :cool:
Well, according to your own words and practice all of those teachings could be true and be based on Scripture HOWEVER as of this moment in time you have not 'changed your belief on those issues'. You may change them in the future since you "still have to learn" even after 48 years. Heck, who knows, maybe in your 50th year of study you may agree with it.....:)
Here is a link to help you study more in depth on those matters so you may learn: Catholic Answers
Marymog
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Marymog
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Lol....You have always kept me in stitches Taken. I believe I have addressed every point @Ronald Nolette has made. If not, point one out or stop trolling.Noticed Marymog deflected, didn’t reply to your points.:
Taken
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Marymog
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Nope, they are not: Catholic Answers
The Church has "answers" that are easy to find. How about your church? Can I find the answers to my questions that easily?
Curious Mary
Taken
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Those are the points you ignored and DID not respond to!
Marymog
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The answers are in the link I provided.
You deflected AND your answers are missing: How about your church? Can I find the answers to my questions that easily?
Pot calling the kettle black? I think so....;)
Taken
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Not interested in your links.
As expected you did not answer.
As I said you did not answer.
I did not answer, Because you did not answer.
That is your questions? LOL.
How about my church? I like it.
Can you find the answers to your questions that easily? LOL
What was your question...
Oh, ya How about my church? LOL
Inasmuch as you seem to not be skilled in speaking for yourself, or forming compete thoughts, neither are you skilled at choosing a befitting idiom or punctuation.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
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