The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

[Moriah's Song]

Here are corroborations of the Premill interpretation of Rev 20's "a thousand years":

Dispies always avoid the words of Jesus himself, the apostles as well as the other writers in of the New Covenant era and instead literalize symbolic apocalyptic language. There is nothing new about your posts. It's heresy.

Jhn 6:39-40...and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jhn 6:44...No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:54...he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 11:24...Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Jhn 12:48...He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.

1Co 1:8...who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 10:11...Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.

1Co 15:24-26...Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Eph 2:16...and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. (not two groups of people as dispy's claim.)

Heb 9:26...for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1Pe 1:20....He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.

1Pe 4:7...The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers.​

New Testament literal language takes priority over the symbolism of Apocrypha symbolism. Try it sometime.

 

[ewq1938]

There is noting new about your posts. It's heresy.

There is nothing new about your posts. It's heresy.

 

[Moriah's Song]

There is nothing new about your posts. It's heresy.

You just called God's Holy Word heresy.

 

[Moriah's Song]

It's heresy.

Any belief system that would bring Christ back to earth for a re-do of what he already accomplished 2,000 years ago is heretical.

1- To bring back Christ to a literal temple when He has said multiple times that his temple is spiritual and not literal is heresy.
2- To bring back Christ for a redo of OT sacrifices when he was the ultimate sacrifice on the cross is heresy.
3- To separate the Jews from the Christians in the body of Christ when Christ brought both into one body is heresy.
4- To "rapture" the church to avoid tribulation is nothing but whiners thinking they are above trials and tribulations and therefore it is heresy.
5- To claim the New Covenant is for the Jews at a later time is heresy.
6- The belief that Jews can still be saved without believing in Jesus is heresy.
7- The belief that the Pope is the head of the Church while it is on Earth as well as the vicar of Christ and the veneration of Mary is heretical.
8- Roman Catholicism violates scripture in its doctrine of salvation, its claims about its authority, its apostolic succession, its priesthood, and its claim to have the sole right to interpret Scripture is heresy.

 

[Timtofly]

Once Again

Scripture states "IF"

No evil is present as you claim, it's a warning, it hasn't taken place

Zechariah 14:18KJV
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Your point is God will accept disobedience if it happens. But it may not?

 

[Keraz]

Any belief system that would bring Christ back to earth for a re-do of what he already accomplished 2,000 years ago is heretical.

You play very fast and loose with the word: heresy. It seems that anything that conflicts with your beliefs is heresy.
Jesus WILL Return, Acts 1:11, +, but the next time will be in power and glory, as King of KIngs and Lord of Lords.

There WILL be a new Temple; Jesus will reign from it, as Zechariah 14:16-21 makes clear.

Accusations of heresy, is against Forum rules.

 

[Moriah's Song]

There WILL be a new Temple; Jesus will reign from it,

I've been through this with you in another site but you still have your head buried in the sand. You deny the truth of #1. Remember "hieron" versus "naos?"

 

[covenantee]

Psa 50:10...For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. (Does God have cattle on "a thousand hills?")

Wrong language.

The Holy Spirit doesn't inspire wrong language.

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Literal or figurative?

1 Corinthians 14:19
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Literal or figurative?

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints...

Literal or figurative?

 

[ewq1938]

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Literal or figurative?

Literal. He chose 10,000. Had he said ten thousands, or just thousands then that is plural and an unknown amount.

1 Corinthians 14:19
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Literal or figurative?

Again, he uses two exact numbers.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints...

Literal or figurative?

Thousands in the plural is an unknown amount.

 

[covenantee]

Literal. He chose 10,000. Had he said ten thousands, or just thousands then that is plural and an unknown amount.

So if they'd only had 9,999 instructers, the verse would not apply to them?

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus WILL Return, Acts 1:11, +, but the next time will be in power and glory, as King of KIngs and Lord of Lords.

There WILL be a new Temple; Jesus will reign from it, as Zechariah 14:16-21 makes clear.

Accusations of heresy, is against Forum rules.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[ewq1938]

So if they'd only had 9,999 instructers, the verse would not apply to them?

Is that found in a verse?

 

[ewq1938]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

Wrong. Revelation 20 has the future Millennium very clearly, in black and white. Look around the world, Jesus is not ruling the nations with a rod of iron. They are unruly and murdering Christians!

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

That passage is addressing events that happen when the New Heaven and new Earth happen, Revelation 21. It's not the second coming.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

This happens after the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) and the lake of fire. Those don't happen on the day of the second coming.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Nothing here supports Amillennialism.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

This isn't Jesus killing people with fire. Are you just going to quote any verse with the word fire in it??

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

So Sodom is going to burn again at the second coming? You already admitted God did not burn every sinner to death when he burned Sodom. This doesn't support Amillennialism.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

He returns IN Fire (actually lightning) but doesn't use fire to kill anyone. Revelation 19 shows how he kills, with a symbolic sword.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Again, fire not killing anyone. This doesn't support your beliefs. It just makes you look incapable of defending your own doctrine. Did you even read any of these before posting this??

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

That's from the past LOL.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Also not a second coming verse. Jesus won't be shooting fire from his eyes or mouth.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

That's from the past LOL.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Again, not a second coming reference. Jesus returns with horses, not chariots.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

No fire even mentioned.

Why quote from a passage that is anti-Amillennial??


Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Amillennialism wrongly claims there are no survivors but there you can see the nations that came against Jerusalem did very much survive! It's always a blessing to see Amills mess up this badly.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Zec 14:16 proves there is no global fire slaughter.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is fire being used to kill people but it's not the second coming nor is Jesus involved. God the Father in heaven does this so you were wrong again, on every single thing in this post.

 

[covenantee]

Is that found in a verse?

Is "trinity" found in a verse?

Explain Scripturally how to reach 10,000 without first reaching 9,999.

 

[ewq1938]

Is "trinity" found in a verse?

Explain Scripturally how to reach 10,000 without first reaching 9,999.

lol, we aren't supposed to stop at each number. He started with 10k. It's literal. It's like, "10k people can tell me 10 times that God isn't real and I will not agree." I am using an exact number two times to make a point.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Accusations of heresy, is against Forum rules.

Oh, no it isn't.
Titus 3:10-11...Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

2 John 1:10-11...If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

2 Corinthians 11:4...For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.​

Dispensationalism and pre-mils preach another Jesus because of "his so-called" inability to accomplish all that the Father gave him to do before the cross. That makes him a "different Jesus" than what is in the Scriptures! Example:

Dispies doctrine claims that Jesus failed to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy to bring the two houses of Israel and Judah together as prophesied as well as the New Covenant...

Jer 31:27..."Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.
Jer 31:31..."Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

5- To claim the New Covenant is for the Jews at a later time is heresy. (As in the list posted above in #324)​

Jer 31:33....But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

 

[covenantee]

lol, we aren't supposed to stop at each number. He started with 10k. It's literal. It's like, "10k people can tell me 10 times that God isn't real and I will not agree." I am using an exact number two times to make a point.

So when Jesus appointed twelve disciples, He didn't appoint disciple number 11 or disciple number 10 or disciple number ... because those numbers are not "in a verse".

lol indeed.

 

[covenantee]

lol, we aren't supposed to stop at each number. He started with 10k. It's literal. It's like, "10k people can tell me 10 times that God isn't real and I will not agree." I am using an exact number two times to make a point.

Since he started with 10K, would the verse be applicable at 10,001?

Or would 10,001 never be reached because it is not "in a verse".

 

[Cassandra]

Oh, no it isn't.
Titus 3:10-11...Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

2 John 1:10-11...If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

2 Corinthians 11:4...For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.​

Dispensationalism and pre-mils preach another Jesus because of "his so-called" inability to accomplish all that the Father gave him to do before the cross. That makes him a "different Jesus" than what is in the Scriptures! Example:

Dispies doctrine claims that Jesus failed to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy to bring the two houses of Israel and Judah together as prophesied as well as the New Covenant...

Jer 31:27..."Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.
Jer 31:31..."Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

5- To claim the New Covenant is for the Jews at a later time is heresy. (As in the list posted above in #324)​

Jer 31:33....But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

Yes! Makes ya wonder why Jesus would say a thing like "It is finished". There is no need for a sacrificial redo.

 

[ewq1938]

Since he started with 10K, would the verse be applicable at 10,001?

Or would 10,001 never be reached because it is not "in a verse".

Stop changing the number used. 10k is the number.