How can you KNOW that you are saved and part of the elect?

[quietthinker]

Is God arbitrary?.....some men like to think so. They superimpose their desire for arbitrariness onto God thus making him like themselves.
Jesus' parable of the employer who called different men to work in his field at various times of the day (Matthew 20:1-16) illustrates how the tightfistedness of men is not indicative of how God operates.

Men think in terms of what they consider fair......God thinks and feels in terms of need and generosity.

There is a real danger of shrinking the unspeakably generous gift of God to the parameters of selfish fallen man......and bending the scriptures to that end!

 

[Lambano]

Lambano says he likes Chock full of nuts Cuban dark roast. I never tried it, but here's a cup.
I hope it's strong enough

Actually, that's @JohnPaul who recommends the Chock-Full-of-Nuts. We're often mistaken for each other.

I wouldn't mind trying it, though.

 

[Johann]

Assurance is the inherent promise....for God cannot and does not lie.
The angels declaration to the shepherds in Bethlehem was for all men. Will all men believe this?.....unfortunately not!

1) "No man can come to me," (oudeis dunatai elthein pros me) "No one is able to come to me," for the bread of life or the water of life, apart from God's initiative convicting and calling, Joh_16:8-11; Rev_22:17.

2) "Except the Father which hath sent me draw him,'' (ean me ho pater ho pempsas me helkuse auton) "Unless the Father who sent me should draw him," by His Word and Spirit, Rom_10:17; Even as the Spirit drew Saul of Tarsus, when pricked to the heart to cry, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" Ac 91-6. The Father drew the Ethiopian eunuch, through the Spirit, that led Philip to preach Jesus to him from the Scriptures that he read, but could not understand, Act_8:28-35.

3) "And I will raise him up at the last day," (kago anasteso auton en te eschate hemera) ''And I will raise him up in the last day," exalt him bodily in the resurrection, from the grave, to be united soul and body forever with me and the Father, 1Th_4:13-18; 1Co_15:51-54, Php_3:20-21.

You are correct, not all can believe it

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Ziggy]

Actually, that's @JohnPaul who recommends the Chock-Full-of-Nuts. We're often mistaken for each other.

I wouldn't mind trying it, though.

Could be we're all chock full of nuts... LOL
God Bless
Hugs

 

[Johann]

I only know what I read in the bible and what I see happening in the world around me.
I barely made it through 6th grade public school. Became a mom at 14. Got married at 18. Worked my butt off in the printing industry as a machine operator for at least 15 years. Got divorced and remarried and went over the road trucking for the next 10 years.
If I was still married, I'd be a widow.
So my life has been caught up in the worldy things for most my life.
I'll be 58 in 8 days. Became disabled with a blockage to my main artery towards the end of those trucking years.
Lost my home and property 6 years ago to a Catagory 5 hurricane in Florida. Moved to my dad's place in Maine.
Where I have been now living by myself with enough time to actually look at things lol.
I don't know much about anything, but I love investigating and learning about everything.
And some things taste good and some things taste rotten to the core. And I seen a lot I wish I'd never seen, and probably not enough of what I'd like to see.
I watch a lot of history documentaries. Just the overviews.
But more than all of these, is what's in the heart. I believe this matters more than all the writings or documentaries or movies in the world.
I believe being good and being kind, is better than reading about being good and being kind.
Life is a doing. And if I were able I would be doing more.

So I can't say that I know or have read anything other than what I read in the bible.
But I'm always open to listening and trying to understand how all of everything fits into God's plan for us.
I think my bottom line is this:
We're all in this boat together. Whether we be "clean" or "unclean" animals, there is only one Ark.
And if we miss that boat, then we have no one else to blame but ourselves.

Lambano says he likes Chock full of nuts Cuban dark roast. I never tried it, but here's a cup.
I hope it's strong enough

Hugs

Powerful testimony

 

[Ziggy]

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it (their heart) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Exo 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
Exo 34:30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
Exo 34:31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
Exo 34:32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
Exo 34:33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
Exo 34:34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
Exo 34:35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

I liken this to when Jesus is talking about the dark coming to the light:

Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Moses had gone missing for forty days and nights. During this time the children of Israel lost their faith in Moses. They created for themselves a god made out of gold to lead them. When Moses came back with the commandments, they were ashamed (and naked as some might say)
Moses got angry. He broke the first set of commandments and went back up to get another set.

So we can see this also in the garden of Eden how Adam and Eve had hid themselves when they heard God's voice in the garden.
They covered themselves with fig leaves because they were ashamed of their (disobedience) nakedness.

Some people just have a real hard time looking st themselves in the mirror. They try to cover up their sins, run from them, anything but admit them and seek forgiveness.

Why did Moses have to hide his face behind a vail? Why was the Holy of Holies and the ark of the covenant placed behind a vail?
Why was the entrance closed to them?
Throughout the bible it says they didn't have faith. They were more secure in the works of their hands to somehow justify themselves.
To prove that they could keep themselves clean at all times. To make themselves righteous.

There are many people still doing that today in many religions. Thinking they themselves can wash away their sins by doing the works of their own hands. But only God's work in our hearts can truly heal us and make a way for the light to shine in.
And this light God sent in the form of a man whom he called Jesus.
Into a world filled with dark hearts and sinful minds. To wash them and clean them and make them whiter than snow.
Through his own righteousness he clothed us with. In his own blood he sacrificed for us.
Jesus is the Lord's passover lamb. And his own Spirit he poured out like living water onto a deserted dying world.

Good Morning!
Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

1) "No man can come to me," (oudeis dunatai elthein pros me) "No one is able to come to me," for the bread of life or the water of life, apart from God's initiative convicting and calling, Joh_16:8-11; Rev_22:17.

2) "Except the Father which hath sent me draw him,'' (ean me ho pater ho pempsas me helkuse auton) "Unless the Father who sent me should draw him," by His Word and Spirit, Rom_10:17; Even as the Spirit drew Saul of Tarsus, when pricked to the heart to cry, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" Ac 91-6. The Father drew the Ethiopian eunuch, through the Spirit, that led Philip to preach Jesus to him from the Scriptures that he read, but could not understand, Act_8:28-35.

3) "And I will raise him up at the last day," (kago anasteso auton en te eschate hemera) ''And I will raise him up in the last day," exalt him bodily in the resurrection, from the grave, to be united soul and body forever with me and the Father, 1Th_4:13-18; 1Co_15:51-54, Php_3:20-21.

You are correct, not all can believe it

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

John 12:32 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself'. ...Jesus.

 

[quietthinker]

How can you KNOW that you are saved and part of the elect?
I have responded to that drawing which draws all men .....Jesus has elected all the seed of Adam......none are exempt from that drawing.......relatively few respond. It is a tragedy the proportions of which will only be seen in eternity.....that men though given life would choose death!

 

[Johann]

John 12:32 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself'. ...Jesus.

I will draw all men to me; which is not to be understood of the concourse of people about him, when on the cross, some for him, and others against him, some to bewail him, and others to reproach him; but rather of the gathering of the elect to him, and in him, as their head and representative, when he was crucified for them; or of the collection of them, through the ministry of the apostles, and of their being brought to believe on him for eternal life and salvation: and this drawing of them to him, in consequence of his death, supposes distance from him, want of power, and will, to came to him, and the efficacious grace of God to bring them, though without any force and compulsion; and this is to be understood not of every individual of human nature; for all are not drawn to Christ, or enabled to come to him, and believe in him. There were many of the Jews who would not, and did not come to him for life; and who instead of being drawn to him in this sense, when lifted up on the cross, vilified and reproached him; moreover, in the preceding verse, "a world" is spoken of, whose judgment, or condemnation, was now come; and besides, there was at this time a multitude of souls in hell, who could not, nor never will be, drawn to Christ; and a greater number still there will be at the last day, who, instead of drawing to him in this gracious way and manner, will be bid to depart from him, as having been workers of iniquity. Christ died indeed for all men who are drawn unto him; but this is not true of all men, that are, were, or shall be in the world. Add to this, that the word "men" is not in the text, it is only παντας, "all": Beza's most ancient copy, and some others, and the Vulgate Latin version read παντα, "all things"; and by "all" are meant, all the elect of God, all the children of God, "that were scattered abroad"; the Persic version reads, "I will draw my friends to me"; it designs some of all sorts of men, of every state, condition, age, sex, and nation, Gentiles as well as Jews, and especially the former; which agrees with the ancient prophecy, Gen_49:10, and with the context, and the occasion of the words, which was the desire of the Greeks, that were come to the feast, to see Jesus; and which was a specimen of the large numbers of them, that should be drawn to Christ, through the preaching of the Gospel, after his death: the Jews say, that in the time to come, or in the days of the Messiah, all the proselytes shall be גרורים, "drawn", shall freely become proselytes (e). The allusion here, is to the setting up of a standard or ensign, to gather persons together. Christ's cross is the standard, his love is the banner, and he himself is the ensign, which draw souls to himself, and engage them to enlist themselves under him, and become his volunteers in the day his power; see Isa_11:10.

 

[Robert Gwin]

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



1) "These things have I written." (Greek tauta agrapsa) These things I wrote or "have written". The "these things" refers to the subject matter of the letter constituting evidences by which one might know and the world know that one was saved, and might have full joy. 1Jn_1:4.

2) "Unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God" (tois) unto or directed to or toward those trusting in the name of the heir or Son of God.

3) "That ye may know that ye have eternal life." (Greek hina) in order that, or for the purpose that, (eidete) you all may know, perceive, or comprehend “ye have, hold or possess eternal life." The terms know, known, and knoweth are used more than twenty times in 1Jo as verifying affirmations that the born Sons of God possessed life of eternal kind nature. It is just as possible for a saved person to know that he is saved as for an unsaved person to know he is unsaved and just as logical. 1Jn_3:2; 1Jn_3:14; 1Jn_4:7; 1Jn_4:13; 1Jn_4:15; 2Co_5:1.

RESTING ON CERTAINTIES

When that Christian and scientist, Sir Michael Faraday, was dying, some journalists questioned him as to his speculations concerning the soul and death "Speculations!" said the dying man, in astonishment, 'I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."

- Gospel Trumpet

4) "And that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." "to believe" on is to rely, trust, or depend on the offers and promises of the Son of God. Joh_6:37; Mat_11:28-30. Joh_14:1-3; Heb_13:3-5; Heb_10:36-37; Rom_10:8-13.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second perfect active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge. He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).
Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

1Jn_5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.


We are of God (ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐσμέν)
For the phrase εἷναι ἐκ to be from, see on Joh_1:46. For ἐσμέν we are, see on 1Jn_3:1. John expresses the relation of believers to God by the following phrases: To be born or begotten of God, γεννηθῆναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (1Jn_5:1; 1Jn_2:29; 1Jn_4:7): denoting the initial communication of the new life. To be of God, εἷναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (Joh_8:47; 1Jn_3:10; 1Jn_4:6): denoting the essential connection in virtue of the new life. Child of God, τέκνον Θεοῦ (Joh_1:12; 1Jn_3:1, 1Jn_3:10): denoting the relation established by the new life.
World (κόσμος)
See on Joh_1:9.
Lieth (κεῖται)
The word is stronger than ἐστι is, indicating the passive, unprogressive state in the sphere of Satan's influence. “While we are from God, implying a birth and a proceeding forth, and a change of state, the κόσμος the world, all the rest of mankind, remains in the hand of the evil one” (Alford).
In wickedness (ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ)
Rev., better, in the evil one. The expression to lie in has a parallel in Sophocles' “Antigone:”
ἐν ὑμῖν γὰρ ὡς Θεῷ
κείμεθα τλάμονες
“Wretched we lie in you as in a god” (247).


1) "And we know that we are of God." He who is saved can know, be assured that he is saved, and know who his earthly father is. Experimentally, personally, one can know that he is saved, a child of God. Testamentarily, he can know he is saved by the inner witness of God's Spirit, and thru evidence of changed lives he can know that he and others are saved.

Ah! The inner witness...what is that?

Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1) "The Spirit itself," (auto to pneuma) "The Spirit himself (itself);" the indwelling Spirit in the believer, 1Jn_4:13; Joh_16:8-11; Eph_1:5; Eph_1:13-14; 2Co_1:22; 2Co_5:5.

2) "Beareth witness with our spirit," (summarteurei to Pneumati hemon) "witnesses in harmony with our spirit," or tells our spirit, bears testimony by the fruit of peace and joy that he brings to our spirits, our consciousness of will and affection for God and holiness, Gal_5:22-23; Rom_5:5.

3) "That we are the children of God," (hoti esmen Tekna theou) "that we are (now exist as) children of God," not merely candidates for childhood to him, 1Jn_5:10; 1Jn_5:13. One does not have to wait till he dies to become a child of God or to know that he is a child of God, Joh_1:11-12; 1Jn_3:1-2; 1Jn_3:10; Gal_3:26.


Do you have this inner witness?

The truth is you don't Joe. Most of us think we are saved, and if Jesus returned at that exact moment perhaps that would be true, but since we do not know the day or hour of his return, we might not be as righteous as we are at all times. Pro21:2

How do we know we are part of the elect? You stated it clearly sir: 2) "Beareth witness with our spirit," (summarteurei to Pneumati hemon) "witnesses in harmony with our spirit," or tells our spirit, bears testimony by the fruit of peace and joy that he brings to our spirits, our consciousness of will and affection for God and holiness, Gal_5:22-23; Rom_5:5.
Those who have been baptized by holy spirit know it beyond any doubt. In fact we are instructed that if we do have doubt, then we likely are not of that fold. I personally am not, and although I prefer not to be called, if I were called I would not reject that privilege. I am very happy that I have not been chosen, since we were not designed for that service.

 

[quietthinker]

"all" are meant, all the elect of God,

All are elected Johann.

Romans 5:12-19 states 5 times (just so we don't miss it) that all are in Adam and all are in Christ. All humanity has been elected in Jesus
There are none that are not elected. God is exonerated from any blame of people lost.

Example:- a man who suicides can never say he wasn't given life.......he had it yet he chose to take it himself.....God did not take it from him nor can God be justifiably blamed for not giving the man life.

 

[Johann]

All are elected Johann.

Romans 5:12-19 states 5 times (just so we don't miss it) that all are in Adam and all are in Christ. All humanity has been elected in Jesus
There are none that are not elected. God is exonerated from any blame of people lost.

Example:- a man who suicides can never say he wasn't given life.......he had it yet he chose to take it himself.....God did not take it from him nor can God be justifiably blamed for not giving the man life.

...then it stands to human reason that "panta" All (the whole world) are saved, which is not the case


Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat_24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.


Original: ἐκλεκτός
- Transliteration: Eklektos
- Phonetic: ek-lek-tos’
- Definition:
1. picked out, chosen
a. chosen by God,
1. to obtain salvation through christ 1a
b. Christians are called chosen or elect of God
1. the messiah in called elect, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
2. choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
- Origin: from G1586
- TDNT entry: 07:01,5
- Part(s) of speech: Adjective
- Strong’s: From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen elect.
Total KJV Occurrences: 14
• chosen, 5
Luk_23:35; Rom_16:13; 1Pe_2:4; 1Pe_2:9; Rev_17:14
• elect, 8
Rom_8:33; Col_3:12; 1Ti_5:21; Tit_1:1; 1Pe_1:2; 1Pe_2:6; 2Jn_1:1; 2Jn_1:13
• sakes, 1
2Ti_2:10

The doctrine of election is not a welcomed by the world and I am not here to sugarcoat the gospel.
Matter of fact, I am not here to see how many "likes" I (ego eimi) can get...we can go deeper, but this will suffice.

 

[Johann]

All are elected Johann.

Romans 5:12-19 states 5 times (just so we don't miss it) that all are in Adam and all are in Christ. All humanity has been elected in Jesus
There are none that are not elected. God is exonerated from any blame of people lost.

Example:- a man who suicides can never say he wasn't given life.......he had it yet he chose to take it himself.....God did not take it from him nor can God be justifiably blamed for not giving the man life.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. (not all...)
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (not all..) be made righteous.

 

[Ziggy]

many were made sinners.... not all?

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentence.

Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

τελώνης telṓnēs, tel-o'-nace; from G5056 and G5608; a tax-farmer, i.e. collector of public revenue:—publican.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner G268 that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Jhn 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: G268 but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

So....
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, G268 Christ died for us.

Who is we?

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

publican, a collector of debts owed.

Who are the ninety and nine just persons which need no repentance?
And who are the righteous that Jesus didn't need to save?

What determines a just and righteous person from a sinner in God's eyes?

sincerely
Hugs

 

[Johann]

many were made sinners.... not all?

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentence.

Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

τελώνης telṓnēs, tel-o'-nace; from G5056 and G5608; a tax-farmer, i.e. collector of public revenue:—publican.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner G268 that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Jhn 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: G268 but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

So....
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, G268 Christ died for us.

Who is we?

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

publican, a collector of debts owed.

Who are the ninety and nine just persons which need no repentance?
And who are the righteous that Jesus didn't need to save?

What determines a just and righteous person from a sinner in God's eyes?

sincerely
Hugs

1) "I say unto you, that," (lego humin) "I tell you al I,"

2) "Likewise joy shall be in heaven," (hoti hutos chara en to ourano estai) "That there will be (or exist)a joy of this kind in heaven," in the presence of angels, Mat_18:10-11, or a similar joy will come to be in heaven, when a sinner repents on earth, so that his name is written in heaven, Luk_10:18-20.

3) "Over one sinner that repenteth," (epi heni hamartolo metanoounti) "Over even one sinner (moral and ethical law-breaker) who repents," so that they may be saved, Mat_3:2; Luk_13:3; Luk_13:5; Act_17:30-31; Luk_16:30.

4) "More than over ninety and nine just persons," (e epi enenekonta ennea dikaiois) "Than over ninety nine just or righteous persons," persons who have already become right with God, already been saved, who have "peace with God," through "repentance to God and faith in Jesus Christ," Act_20:21.

5) "Which need no repentance." (oitines ou cherian echousin metanoias) "Who have or hold no need of repentance," who have already been rescued from this alienation from God, Rom_2:4-5; 2Co_7:10. This does not mean that some live so good that they do not need repentance for "all have sinned," and come short of the "glory (glory presence) of God," and all must repent and be born again to enter heaven, Luk_13:3; Luk_13:5; Joh_3:5. The "just ones" that need no repentance are those safe in the fold, already brought under the shepherd's fold care.

Tell me Ziggy, are ALL repenting? All indwelt by the Holy Spirit?


1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Born Again to a Living Hope
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Give me your understanding of 1Pe 1:2

2) "To the strangers" To the sojourners (Gk. parepidemois) or pilgrims of the dispersion (Gk. eklektois) called out or chosen ones. This is a general epistle only in the sense that the elected, chosen, and called, dispersed pilgrim brethren of local churches of several provinces are addressed. It is a specific church letter, not a universal Catholic letter. 1Pe_2:5-10; 1Pe_4:17. The church only is the house of God. 1Ti_3:15.

Who are the elect, who are the chosen?

...or are ALL elect and chosen after the death and resurrection of Christ having the seal of the Holy Spirit?

How do you understand...many are called, few chosen?

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


1) "For many are called," (polloi gar eisin kletoi) "Because many are called," to salvation and obedient service. One must be born again, saved to be a child of God: But a child of God, though called to follow Jesus Through His church, becomes a servant of God only as he chooses to obey God's call and chosen method and place of service for Him, Eph_2:10; Eph_3:21; Jas_1:22; Joh_14:15; Joh_15:14.

2) "But few are chosen." (oligoi de eklektoi) "Yet few are (exist as) chosen ones," as ones who are both saved and have volunteered to obey the Lord Through service in His church, Luk_9:23; Joh_5:1-6; Joh_5:16; Joh_5:27.
The import of the parable is that though many were called to the King's feast the marriage festivity of His son, few came, in comparison with the invited number. So, many by neglect, irreverence, or contempt for the bridal-feast garment requisite, simply did not choose to come, though called. Many of the lost who are called to salvation never choose to be saved. And many who are saved and called to scriptural baptism, identity and covenant pledge of service to Him in His church, never obey this latter call, thus complying with His chosen way for them to serve Him, See? Eph_2:10; Eph_3:21; Mat_5:13-16.

Would you agree with the above post?

 

[Ziggy]

4) "More than over ninety and nine just persons," (e epi enenekonta ennea dikaiois) "Than over ninety nine just or righteous persons," persons who have already become right with God, already been saved, who have "peace with God," through "repentance to God and faith in Jesus Christ," Act_20:21.

5) "Which need no repentance." (oitines ou cherian echousin metanoias) "Who have or hold no need of repentance," who have already been rescued from this alienation from God, Rom_2:4-5; 2Co_7:10. This does not mean that some live so good that they do not need repentance for "all have sinned," and come short of the "glory (glory presence) of God," and all must repent and be born again to enter heaven, Luk_13:3; Luk_13:5; Joh_3:5. The "just ones" that need no repentance are those safe in the fold, already brought under the shepherd's fold care.

Jesus is presently speaking that the 99 just or righteous persons need no repentance.

What concerning King Solomon in Ecclesiastes then:
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Thy faith hath saved thee...

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

What is sin?
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

NLT: This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Born Again to a Living Hope
Give me your understanding of 1Pe 1:2

Those who walk by Faith.

...or are ALL elect and chosen after the death and resurrection of Christ having the seal of the Holy Spirit?

How is it then the woman and the man were saved by faith before Christ's death and resurrection?
Were these not sealed, and yet saved?
Or did they already have posession of the Holy Spirit to draw them unto himself?

Who are the Elect?

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Sanctification of the Spirit..
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth:

2Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The city was founded in 315 BC by Cassander of Macedon, who named it after his wife Thessalonike, daughter of Philip II of Macedon and sister of Alexander the Great. An important metropolis by the Roman period, Thessaloniki was the second largest and wealthiest city of the Byzantine Empire.

After the fall of the Kingdom of Macedonia in 168 BC, in 148 BC Thessalonica was made the capital of the Roman province of Macedonia.[37] Thessalonica became a free city of the Roman Republic under Mark Antony in 41 BC.[35][38] It grew to be an important trade hub located on the Via Egnatia,[39] the road connecting Dyrrhachium with Byzantium,[40] which facilitated trade between Thessaloniki and great centers of commerce such as Rome and Byzantium.[41] Thessaloniki also lays at the southern end of the main north–south route through the Balkans along the valleys of the Morava and Axios river valleys, thereby linking the Balkans with the rest of Greece.[42] The city became the capital of one of the four Roman districts of Macedonia;[39] later it became the capital of all the Greek provinces of the Roman Empire because of its importance in the Balkan peninsula.

At the time of the Roman Empire, about 50 A.D., Thessaloniki was also one of the early centers of Christianity; while on his second missionary journey, Paul the Apostle visited this city's chief synagogue on three Sabbaths and sowed the seeds for Thessaloniki's first Christian church. Later, Paul wrote two letters to the new church at Thessaloniki, preserved in the Biblical canon as First and Second Thessalonians. Some scholars hold that the First Epistle to the Thessalonians is the first written book of the New Testament
Thessaloniki - Wikipedia

So Paul goes to the heart of Greece under the control of Rome, seeks out the chief synagogue....
Now synagogues are Jewish and he went there on 3 Sabbaths. So Paul is preaching to the Jews in the midst of the Gentiles.
And he is calling them out from under the law and to walk in faith through Jesus Christ.

Wouldn't these then be the "elect" ?

I don't know where I'm from. I don't know my lineage that well. But I'm presuming I come from Noah's son Japheth who travelled to the northern parts. And from what I can find, I am from the England/France part of Europe.
So I don't pretend to understand Jewish ancestry. I rather try to understand it, with the full understanding that from wherever I came from,
I am joined to the branch as one that is grafted in.
And that grafting in is only made possible through faith and our father Abraham. Whether we be Jew/Israel or Greek/Gentile.

I believe the only way one gets to eat at the table is by faith.
So then faith is the tie that binds us to the One that created us all.

There are many who are called to faith and many that reject it. We can witness this with our own eyes today.
The question is: will there be a great revival, a great awakening still to come?
I'm praying there is.

Would you agree with the above post?

That was a hard post to chew on brother, lol
I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing?
Sorry for the long post and wiki history, but most times it helps me to understand how we got here and where we are going.
:)
Hugs

 

[Johann]

Jesus is presently speaking that the 99 just or righteous persons need no repentance.

What concerning King Solomon in Ecclesiastes then:
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Thy faith hath saved thee...

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

What is sin?
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

NLT: This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.



Those who walk by Faith.



How is it then the woman and the man were saved by faith before Christ's death and resurrection?
Were these not sealed, and yet saved?
Or did they already have posession of the Holy Spirit to draw them unto himself?

Who are the Elect?

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Sanctification of the Spirit..
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth:

2Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The city was founded in 315 BC by Cassander of Macedon, who named it after his wife Thessalonike, daughter of Philip II of Macedon and sister of Alexander the Great. An important metropolis by the Roman period, Thessaloniki was the second largest and wealthiest city of the Byzantine Empire.

After the fall of the Kingdom of Macedonia in 168 BC, in 148 BC Thessalonica was made the capital of the Roman province of Macedonia.[37] Thessalonica became a free city of the Roman Republic under Mark Antony in 41 BC.[35][38] It grew to be an important trade hub located on the Via Egnatia,[39] the road connecting Dyrrhachium with Byzantium,[40] which facilitated trade between Thessaloniki and great centers of commerce such as Rome and Byzantium.[41] Thessaloniki also lays at the southern end of the main north–south route through the Balkans along the valleys of the Morava and Axios river valleys, thereby linking the Balkans with the rest of Greece.[42] The city became the capital of one of the four Roman districts of Macedonia;[39] later it became the capital of all the Greek provinces of the Roman Empire because of its importance in the Balkan peninsula.

At the time of the Roman Empire, about 50 A.D., Thessaloniki was also one of the early centers of Christianity; while on his second missionary journey, Paul the Apostle visited this city's chief synagogue on three Sabbaths and sowed the seeds for Thessaloniki's first Christian church. Later, Paul wrote two letters to the new church at Thessaloniki, preserved in the Biblical canon as First and Second Thessalonians. Some scholars hold that the First Epistle to the Thessalonians is the first written book of the New Testament
Thessaloniki - Wikipedia

So Paul goes to the heart of Greece under the control of Rome, seeks out the chief synagogue....
Now synagogues are Jewish and he went there on 3 Sabbaths. So Paul is preaching to the Jews in the midst of the Gentiles.
And he is calling them out from under the law and to walk in faith through Jesus Christ.

Wouldn't these then be the "elect" ?

I don't know where I'm from. I don't know my lineage that well. But I'm presuming I come from Noah's son Japheth who travelled to the northern parts. And from what I can find, I am from the England/France part of Europe.
So I don't pretend to understand Jewish ancestry. I rather try to understand it, with the full understanding that from wherever I came from,
I am joined to the branch as one that is grafted in.
And that grafting in is only made possible through faith and our father Abraham. Whether we be Jew/Israel or Greek/Gentile.

I believe the only way one gets to eat at the table is by faith.
So then faith is the tie that binds us to the One that created us all.

There are many who are called to faith and many that reject it. We can witness this with our own eyes today.
The question is: will there be a great revival, a great awakening still to come?
I'm praying there is.



That was a hard post to chew on brother, lol
I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing?
Sorry for the long post and wiki history, but most times it helps me to understand how we got here and where we are going.
:)
Hugs

Hmm..Wikipedia?

Please listen to this and your feedback Ziggy

 

[Ziggy]

Hmm..Wikipedia?

I know I know..
Ok I'm going to go listen. I just wanted you to know that I know.
lol
They have one guy that edits info faster than a hummingbirds wings flutter.

Hugs

 

[Johann]

I know I know..
Ok I'm going to go listen. I just wanted you to know that I know.
lol
They have one guy that edits info faster than a hummingbirds wings flutter.

Hugs

Lol, you are really amazing, that is, until...we have our first moment of "intense fellowship?"

 

[farouk]

I know I know..
Ok I'm going to go listen. I just wanted you to know that I know.
lol
They have one guy that edits info faster than a hummingbirds wings flutter.

Hugs

@Ziggy Interesting way of putting it....