Mary found the tomb empty...where did Jesus body go?

[Lambano]

Great question.
I'll ask you a question to answer your question.
Why did Thomas not recognize Jesus, so that he needed to see actual wounds? Surely Thomas knew what Jesus looked like, didn't he?

Maybe he thought he was seeing a ghost? (Acts 12:15)

 

[farouk]

Maybe he thought he was seeing a ghost? (Acts 12:15)

This is very subjective, but sometimes I have vivid impressions in my memory. When something turns out not to be accurate, I sometimes conclude that the matter in my memory is from a vivid dream rather than from a fact.

The appearance of the Lord Jesus after His resurrection to many witnesses made it clear to them that He indeed was risen bodily from the dead.

 

[The Disciple John]

Very good knowledge supplied here....thank you so much...I never put much thought about His body until recently when I was participating in a thread discussing whether our spirit leaves the body at the time of death or sleeps until the resurrection....
And that is when that "aha" moment came while I was debating....I always try to find a scripture that tells what Jesus did...(remember the WWJD movement?)....so this is when I became convinced that our spirit leaves the body....it is the "breath" of life....there is no breath in a corpse...
So as Jesus spoke His last words His spirit left His body....but rejoined it on the day of His resurrection....where was His spirit hanging around for 3 days? Well we know scripture says He was busy setting captives free and taking authority over Satan....but He wasn't doing this in His fleshly body...it was His spiritual body...which makes sense because He was operating in the spirit realm.

Loving this discussion and all the input...thank you!

Where was His spirit hanging around for 3 days?
Since the spirit is the breath of life... we can do an experiment, and test it. Hold your breath for a minute.
No, seriously ;), the breath of life, or spirit does not hang. It's not a living thing. It keeps one alive. That's it. Once a person dies, they don't need it anymore. It's gone.

Does God need it?
Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God, the Lord,
who created the heavens and stretched them out,
who spread out the earth and what comes from it,
who gives breath to the people on it
and spirit to those who walk in it:

How would you answer?
The Bible says he himself gives it. The spirit comes from God.
He can take it, and he can give it. That's how we live.

Psalm 104
29 When you hide your face, they are dismayed;
when you take away their breath, they die
and return to their dust.
30 When you send forth your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground.

Not hanging anywhere, but rather your life is "in God's hands". He is the source of our life. He gives life. The spirit - God's spirit, is what makes alive.
Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Ezekiel 37:14

Sadly, the first lie, has permeated the world's religions, and the apostasy spoken of by Jesus and his apostles, have adopted this lie, namely, that one does not die. So people have come to believe the lie, thinking that at death, one is still living on.
I know you don't want to believe lies Heart2Soul.

To believe that Jesus died but did not die, is to believe what Satan told Eve. Is it not?

 

[Lambano]

:cool::cool::):):)
What a merry-go-round....Mary didn't recognize Him either....I have to think it's because He is in His glorified body which still looks like His old one...(the scars...which I heard that He has to bear them always...)

Nor did Cleopas, until Jesus decided to let them recognize Him. I wonder why that was? Weird...

 

[michaelvpardo]

When discussing it over dinner, I took the "white robe" position based on the Great Multitude in Revelation 7:9. My sister-in-law took the position that the World to Come will be like the Garden of Eden before the Fall and we would be naked and unashamed. The mental image of my elderly sister-in-law in the buff disconcerted me, but I understand her point. But I don't think the Hebrew people were nudists, since being naked is spoken of as something to avoid (Revelation 3:17), so I respectfully disagreed. It was an interesting table discussion.

I remember the Crosby, Stills, and Nash lyric too "and we have to get ourselves back to the garden", but that would make the entire history of man an exercise in vanity and futility.

God had a purpose in "the fall" and I'm pretty sure it's about the revelation of His love in the person of His Son.
It isn't possible to go back to innocence, but the love of God transforms us into the image of Christ. Seems like a good plan to me.

 

[The Disciple John]

This is probably a good example of how scripture gets misinterpreted...I took it literally and you see it as a metaphor....Holy Spirit help us to find the revelation knowledge of scripture so that we can plainly see what is the intended meaning of it.

Heart2Soul, tell me if you agree with this. Does it make sense.
Holy spirit, according to scripture, teaches, by bringing back to mind the things we are taught.
John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

We learn these things through the Bible. So the Bible is the basis for what the holy spirit will bring to mind.
Which means we must have a basic understanding of scripture.
Would you agree with this?

Now we can ask, what is the basic understanding from scripture, about spirits in heaven?
Are they flesh or physical?
What does the Bible really teach us about spirit? Is it material?

So long as one understand the basics, other questions can be answered.
As far as we know, nothing spirit can be held or contained.
Let's do another experiment. Seriously this time. :)
Capture the wind. Please do not try to capture a tornado. Please.
Capture magnetism.
Hold anything at all that is spirit.
It can't be done.

So does a spirit actually dress? Do they need to eat, breath, and sleep?
My answer is no. However, if we differ on this, it's not an issue. It's noting we need to about at present.
Gaining God's approval is what matter. This, I'm sure we agree on. :)

 

[The Disciple John]

@Heart2Soul
Concerning the book of Revelation though, it's important to note what John said in his opening words... The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Revelation 1:1, 2
It's not in this translation... actually several translations omit this important point.
Why?
Why is the Greek word for signs, or symbolism omitted from these translations?
σημαίνω - sémainó: to give a sign

I'll try the New King James Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John...

The Revelations John received from the angel, were given in signs (symbolism).
So much of John's writing in that book, is actually symbolic.
That's why the angel would often help John out a bit, by explaining...

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Revelation 1:20
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth: and they [the seven mountings] are seven kings... Revelation 17:9, 10
And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; Revelation 17:12
The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues... Revelation 17:15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:14

You see how that basic understanding helps.
We then are able to see the symbolism for what it is.

So understanding the Bible really requires one to listen to what the spirit says, by learning and understanding the basics, and building on those.
When we do that humbly, we gain truth.

For example, we don't see words and go... "Oh. Fire. They will be burned forever!" Rather, we see fire, and we go... "Okay, let's find out what God is saying." What did the angel tell John the lake of fire is, or represents? The second death.
It represents death... a second one.

So now with a clear understanding - free of our own ideas, we go... "Oh right! So the lake of fire mean that those who return to life, but then are not found written in the book of life, are condemned to death. This time, the death is permanent. They won't return again to die a third death... because there is no third death. Now I get it."

The Bible can be easy to understand, once we listen, humbly.
So let me ask you this Heart2Soul. With that approach, and understanding, how is the Devil, and those in the Lake of Fire tormented forever?
It's not hard. Just think about what you learned here, and build on it. :)

 

[The Disciple John]

:cool::cool::):):)
What a merry-go-round....Mary didn't recognize Him either....I have to think it's because He is in His glorified body which still looks like His old one...(the scars...which I heard that He has to bear them always...)

Jesus was a punching bag, and beaten nearly half to death.
Okay, so you think his glorified body could be seen by humans?
How would that be possible? How are angels seen?
Are you of the view that these scars are hidden, and reappear at will?
Sorry, I just want to see from your perspective.

 

[Lambano]

I remember the Crosby, Stills, and Nash lyric too "and we have to get ourselves back to the garden", but that would make the entire history of man an exercise in vanity and futility.

God had a purpose in "the fall" and I'm pretty sure it's about the revelation of His love in the person of His Son.
It isn't possible to go back to innocence, but the love of God transforms us into the image of Christ. Seems like a good plan to me.

Woodstock!

Interesting point. It also came up in the thread about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If we are to become like Christ, does that confirm the Serpent's statement that if we ate from the Tree, we will become like God?

I came to the conclusion that for whatever it is God plans for us to become, it is necessary that we experientially know Good and Evil. It's my way of philosophically dealing with the problem of theodicy, God allowing Evil to exist. So I agree; the history of Man is not a cosmic mistake that needs to be corrected, and we will not go back to a state of innocence. We will retain our knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

[Enoch111]

...but is there any scriptural reason for your thinking that Jesus went to heaven before actually ascending to heaven? Acts 1:9

Yes. As a matter of fact there were two very important tasks which Christ needed to accomplish before His final ascension of Heaven: (1) Christ would sprinkle His blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven, and (2) Christ would take all the Old Testament saints from Sheol/Hades to the New Jerusalem in Heaven. Here are the relevant passages:

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Heb 9:11,12)

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. [Note: the spirits of just men made perfect = the OT saints. The were taken to Heaven as noted below]

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:8-10 Cf Ps 68:18; Jud 5:12) [Note: before men receive spiritual gifts they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Christ gave the gift of the Holy Spirit to the OT saints in order to make them perfect]

Christ was in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, "preaching" to the spirits in prison. Sheol was a virtual prison for the OT saints until the resurrection of Christ. But on the day that He arose, He led "captivity" (those in captivity) captive and destroyed the gates of Hades. Therefore we see the spirits of just men in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Jim B]

So what happened to His body?
When He was on the cross His last words were "It is finished"...bowed His head and gave up the ghost..
“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
— John 19:30 (KJV)
(This tells us that when we die our spirit/ghost leaves the body)

So now the third day has come and Mary and the disciples discover Jesus body is gone....
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
² Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
³ Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
⁴ So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
⁵ And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
⁶ Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
⁷ And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
⁸ Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
⁹ For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
¹⁰ Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
¹¹ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
¹² And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
¹³ And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
¹⁴ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

Now we have a dilemma....
If Jesus ghost left his body when He was on the Cross then He must have re-entered His body...(His spirit) in order for Mary to see Him in the flesh....

Mary Magdalene and Mary, Jesus' mother, are two different people.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Mary Magdalene and Mary, Jesus' mother, are two different people.

Yes I know this...did I claim them to be the same person?

 

[The Disciple John]

Yes. As a matter of fact there were two very important tasks which Christ needed to accomplish before His final ascension of Heaven: (1) Christ would sprinkle His blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven, and (2) Christ would take all the Old Testament saints from Sheol/Hades to the New Jerusalem in Heaven. Here are the relevant passages:

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Heb 9:11,12)

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. [Note: the spirits of just men made perfect = the OT saints. The were taken to Heaven as noted below]

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:8-10 Cf Ps 68:18; Jud 5:12) [Note: before men receive spiritual gifts they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Christ gave the gift of the Holy Spirit to the OT saints in order to make them perfect]

Christ was in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, "preaching" to the spirits in prison. Sheol was a virtual prison for the OT saints until the resurrection of Christ. But on the day that He arose, He led "captivity" (those in captivity) captive and destroyed the gates of Hades. Therefore we see the spirits of just men in the New Jerusalem.

Thanks for your response Enoch... You are not the guy who walked with God, and God took him, are you?

Are you making some assumptions here, based on suppositions though?
For example, you used Hebrews 9:11, 12, but why do you suppose this refers to an earlier ascension, than the actual one Luke reports on, in the book of Acts?

At Hebrews 12, Paul is addressing first century annointed Christians. Why have you applied it to early Jews, supposing that they are Saints?

You have assumed that these went to heaven, but on the basis that you suppose that Paul's address to first century born again - annointed sons of God, is addressing "OT Saints".
Can you explain how you did that?

Would the idea that faithful ones of old, went to heaven, not contradict these scriptures... John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20; Hebrews 10:19, 20 ?
This is what Paul speaks of at length, in Hebrews 9, isn't it?
Jesus make a covenant with his disciples, to be in his kingdom, isn't that so? Luke 22:28-30 These are the ones he promised to return for, to take them home. John 14:3

What do you think about Jesus' words at Luke 12:32?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Funny, but God who spoke all things into existence is capable of doing anything you can imagine (and doesn't need a shovel.) However, He normally doesn't violate His character or the order He created in His creation. (The miraculous is a rarity, not the norm.)

I didn’t mean any disrespect or sarcasm over the shovel comment. I’ve truly considered it as not a joke. The internet says God Himself buried Moses …that makes me think of “buried with Christ” and could this be when God Himself buried Moses in Christ (no shovel but He who gave Himself for us to redeem us from death) considering
Luke 9:29-31 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. [30] And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: [31] Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

But then when looking up God buried Moses Himself In the word I could not find it. Seems off topic but the topic is:…the tomb empty. Where did Jesus body go? The same question is asked of Moses (unless I’m mistaken) even
Jude 1:9 K Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[Enoch111]

Are you making some assumptions here, based on suppositions though?

No I am not making any assumptions based on suppositions. Christians need to learn to connect the dots.

For example, you used Hebrews 9:11, 12, but why do you suppose this refers to an earlier ascension, than the actual one Luke reports on, in the book of Acts?

All references to the final ascension of Christ speak of Him being received up into Heaven by Himself. They do not include anyone else. Therefore it is perfectly fitting that we turn to Hebrews 9:11,12 to see what Christ accomplished immediately after His resurrection and before His final ascension. The first order of business was to take His own blood to the Heavenly Sanctuary and apply it to the mercy seat. That was already prefigured with the Mercy Seat over the Ark of the Covenant under the Law of Moses.

At Hebrews 12, Paul is addressing first century anointed Christians. Why have you applied it to early Jews, supposing that they are Saints?

Since our citizenship is in Heaven, Paul is telling ALL the saints (including us) in Hebrews 12:22-24 that there are six occupants or groups of occupants in the New Jerusalem which is in Heaven:
1. An innumerable company of angels
2. All the NT saints who have passed on -- "the general assembly and Church of the firstborn"
3. God the Father "the Judge of all"
4. All the OT saints perfected by Christ -- "the spirits of just men made perfect"
5. "Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant"
6. The blood of Christ -- "the blood of sprinkling". It should be obvious that this blood is connected to Hebrews 9:11,12.

You have assumed that these went to heaven, but on the basis that you suppose that Paul's address to first century born again - anointed sons of God, is addressing "OT Saints". Can you explain how you did that?

The fact that the OT saints went to the New Jerusalem is based on the fact that the righteous dead in Sheol/Hades prior to the resurrection of Christ were in Abraham's bosom. Now Abraham anticipated being in the New Jerusalem, just as Job anticipated seeing his Redeemer face to face. So their expectations were fulfilled after the resurrection of Christ (which was after the finished work of Christ).

Now notice what is stated in Hebrews 11:16 regarding the city for the OT saints -- But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. And for Abraham in particular we read (v 10): For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.These verses tell us that even while the OT saints were in Sheol/Hades they expected to be in the New Jerusalem at a future time.

Would the idea that faithful ones of old, went to heaven, not contradict these scriptures... John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20; Hebrews 10:19, 20 ?

Not at all -- if they are properly interpreted. John 3:13 speaks of the uniqueness of Christ, not that other have not gone to Heaven (e.g. Enoch and Elijah). Heb 6:19 speaks of the hope of those who are still alive on earth and expect to enter Heaven (and may do so in prayer). And Heb 10:19 speaks of boldness in prayer. But Hebrews 9 is all about Christ being in the Heavenly Sanctuary as the Great High Priest with His blood applied to the Mercy Seat (prefigured in the OT).

Luke 22:28-30 is strictly about the eleven apostles -- Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Paul would be added later as the 12th apostle.

John 14:1-3 is about the Rapture and Luke 12:32 is about Christ's flock of believers -- those who are children of God and will enter into the Kingdom of God (having entered spiritually).

 

[The Disciple John]

Great question John, in a nutshell it is God's force or power. A better understanding can come from knowing the words it was translated from, and how they are used. Ruach and Pneuma translated force, blast, breath, breeze, spirit, tempest, and wind. Interestingly all people are kept alive by the breath of life, one usage of the holy spirit, the Bible tells us that when that spirit goes out, we die. His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish World English Bible. Most versions use breath instead of spirit in that passage.

Power by force. :)
Many believe the Trinity doctrine's roots run deep in paganism, and that the only reason persons declared the holy spirit a person, is due to wanting a third person to make up a Trinity.
Could there be a Trinity without a third person? Clearly not, since that would not be triune.

The concept of God being three, does not appear anywhere in the "OT", from what I have read. Perhaps someone can correct me.
As regards it being found in the "NT" usually I hear persons offering explanations, but they don't tend to mesh with other scriptures.
That's why I made this thread, and asked for an explanation on these verse.

I want to hear how one who believes the holy spirit to be a person, would explain its "nature".
Thanks for your input Robert.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I didn’t mean any disrespect or sarcasm over the shovel comment. I’ve truly considered it as not a joke. The internet says God Himself buried Moses …that makes me think of “buried with Christ” and could this be when God Himself buried Moses in Christ (no shovel but He who gave Himself for us to redeem us from death) considering
Luke 9:29-31 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. [30] And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: [31] Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

But then when looking up God buried Moses Himself In the word I could not find it. Seems off topic but the topic is:…the tomb empty. Where did Jesus body go? The same question is asked of Moses (unless I’m mistaken) even
Jude 1:9 K Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

I knew the passage was in Deuteronomy, but I'm terrible with chapter and verse numbers, so I searched on Bing.
4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land of which I swore to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have caused you to see it with your eyes, but you shall not cross over there.”
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day. Deuteronomy 34:4-6
I don't think that the Lord required a shovel, but it certainly wouldn't have been a problem to speak one into existence.

I've wondered why there? Why mount Nebo? Why a valley in Moab?
The patriarchs were buried in a cave in Machpelah, near Mamre where Abraham dwelt in tents. The Israelites carried the body of Joseph from Egypt to be buried in the land of his fathers, but Moses wasn't permitted to cross the Jordan.

I'm sure that Joshua was a "type" of Christ and crossing the Jordan represented our entry into new life, so perhaps Moses was left in Moab to represent the law being left behind to live by grace. The Lord just taught me another detail. Thank you for your post. I might have missed that aspect of the "type" if I hadn't seen your post, and I don't spend as much time just reading scripture as I did when I was younger.

 

[farouk]

I knew the passage was in Deuteronomy, but I'm terrible with chapter and verse numbers, so I searched on Bing.
4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land of which I swore to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have caused you to see it with your eyes, but you shall not cross over there.”
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day. Deuteronomy 34:4-6
I don't think that the Lord required a shovel, but it certainly wouldn't have been a problem to speak one into existence.

I've wondered why there? Why mount Nebo? Why a valley in Moab?
The patriarchs were buried in a cave in Machpelah, near Mamre where Abraham dwelt in tents. The Israelites carried the body of Joseph from Egypt to be buried in the land of his fathers, but Moses wasn't permitted to cross the Jordan.

I'm sure that Joshua was a "type" of Christ and crossing the Jordan represented our entry into new life, so perhaps Moses was left in Moab to represent the law being left behind to live by grace. The Lord just taught me another detail. Thank you for your post. I might have missed that aspect of the "type" if I hadn't seen your post, and I don't spend as much time just reading scripture as I did when I was younger.

@michaelvpardo Maybe in the wisdom of God Moses' grave is unknown to men because otherwise legalists would revere it...

 

[michaelvpardo]

Power by force. :)
Many believe the Trinity doctrine's roots run deep in paganism, and that the only reason persons declared the holy spirit a person, is due to wanting a third person to make up a Trinity.
Could there be a Trinity without a third person? Clearly not, since that would not be triune.

The concept of God being three, does not appear anywhere in the "OT", from what I have read. Perhaps someone can correct me.
As regards it being found in the "NT" usually I hear persons offering explanations, but they don't tend to mesh with other scriptures.
That's why I made this thread, and asked for an explanation on these verse.

I want to hear how one who believes the holy spirit to be a person, would explain its "nature".
Thanks for your input Robert.

Jesus is a Person and He spoke of the Holy Spirit as one like Him. He described Him as taking of His and giving to His disciples. That seems like something a person does to me.

 

[quietthinker]

Mary found the tomb empty...where did Jesus body go?
lol.....right there in front of her ...but it was raining so hard the windshield wipers couldn't cope. It was not until Jesus caught her attention by saying her name that she realised he was right there.