The Sacrifice of Jesus.....revisited

[BarneyFife]

I'd like to know. :)

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

It means His character does not change.

Levi is not Melchizedek, or Judah.

Hebrews 7:12 KJV: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

You'd better learn to rightly divide and reconcile paradox in Scripture, Kid.

God's character doesn't change because His laws do not change. Both are inherently tied together because the integrity of God's character flows from Him being able to perfectly keep His own laws. People misunderstand Heb. 7:12 as saying the law changed when the reality is that Paul was saying the change occurred in how the law is supposed to be administered.

A great example of this change is the case of the Corinthian Christian who was having a sexual relationship with his stepmother. Under the Sinai Covenant, this man would've been eligible for the death penalty(Lev. 20:11). Instead, he was kicked out of the Church until he repented(1 Cor. 5:5) because the New Covenant is about mercy instead of outright condemnation(2 Cor. 3:7-8, 4:1).

In 1 Cor. 5:13, Paul explained the purpose behind this by quoting Deuteronomy where it says God wanted His people to be kept safe from immorality. This circles back around to why Paul said the administration is what has changed. The underlying principles behind God enforcing these laws is still love and genuine concern for our well being, and they still guarantee the best results for everybody if they're applied correctly.

 

[Cassandra]

Jesus didn't get sprinkled/
3 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and a]">[a]He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The sacrifice of Jesus:-

1...Was it to balance some sort of scales justice/injustice...cosmic or otherwise?
2...Was it because God had a taste for blood?
3...Is 'sacrifice' the right word ...and if so, why?
4...Did Jesus have anything to say about sacrifice....if so, what?

Who has the courage to think outside the square of this delicate subject and still be faithful to the intent of the scriptures?

a late Edit...
5...How is or what has The Kingdom of God to do or connected with sacrifice??

To answer #4 Yes it was determined by the God head that Jesus would incarnate and die!

#5 the kingdom is not affected. Our ability to enter the kingdom is!

#1-3 all silliness. Jesus died for one reason to become our sin and pay the price for our sin on the cross!

 

[quietthinker]

To answer #4 Yes it was determined by the God head that Jesus would incarnate and die!

#5 the kingdom is not affected. Our ability to enter the kingdom is!

#1-3 all silliness. Jesus died for one reason to become our sin and pay the price for our sin on the cross!

do you really think God needs to be paid before he will forgive sins?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

do you really think God needs to be paid before he will forgive sins?

It doesn't matter what you or I think, it just matters what God said and God said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

 

[quietthinker]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, it just matters what God said and God said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

you are quoting the writer of Hebrews which says 'In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness'.....then you are attributing it to God saying it.
This needs unraveling first before being in a position to give an informed comment.

 

[bbyrd009]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, it just matters what God said and God said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

under the law anyway, yeh...
or i mean..what he said :)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

you are quoting the writer of Hebrews which says 'In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness'.....then you are attributing it to God saying it.
This needs unraveling first before being in a position to give an informed comment.

It is not a mystery entwined like a ball of thread. It is a simple statement that needs to be obeyed!

Many have said similar to you and have attempted to unravel something that needs no unravelling. Wnhy should your unraveleed conclusion be more right than theirs?

Do you really think that after over three thousand years since this was initially disclosed, no man could speak the truth to this?

What is so mysterious? "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission."

We know from this writer also that all the OT types were shadows of the real to come. We know that the Passover Lamb was symbolic of Gods Lamb!
JOhn the Baptist declared so!

we also know Jesus blood was shed for the removing of our sins!

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:12 - Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 13:20 - Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

olossians 1:14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 10:19-22 - Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

It is irrelavent if we do not know why. It is what it is and is the truth we live and rejoice in, whether we can understand it with our finite minds or not!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

under the law anyway, yeh...
or i mean..what he said :)

And in the present church age! Our sins are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus!

The OT blood only covered sins, jesus blood removes sin1

 

[bbyrd009]

And in the present church age! Our sins are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus!

The OT blood only covered sins, jesus blood removes sin1

that is where we start i guess, yes; under the law, Esau and his red stew, sure. Made by Jacob, right

 

[Ronald Nolette]

that is where we start i guess, yes; under the law, Esau and his red stew, sure. Made by Jacob, right

What has this got to do with anything?

 

[Behold]

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not;l.

I said that God changes His dealing with Mankind.
I didnt say that God changes..

So, pay attention.

 

[Behold]

do you really think God needs to be paid before he will forgive sins?

No, He just needed to die for your sin on the Cross, to be able to forgive you for your lifetime of sinning.

 

[Behold]

you are quoting the writer of Hebrews

That would be the apostle Paul.

 

[Behold]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, it just matters what God said and God said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

And that is God's blood, as Jesus is God manifested in the Flesh.
So, THAT blood is a little different then ours, as Jesus had no human father who created him from human seed..... so, he had no adamic nature.
The seed that created Jesus is God's Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

That's certainly one way to go. And it gets my vote. :)

Yikes.
You are a Catholic?
Hummmm.

Well here is the thing.....if Jesus was being literal about "my flesh and blood", then when he was at the last supper he would have cut his wrists and drained the blood into the CUP, and passed it around.
And he would have taken that knife and cut out a piece of his flesh, and passed it around.

Notice he didnt do any of this?

Figure that out, if you can.
Give it a shot.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That would be the apostle Paul.

MAYBE. But as Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles and was dead by the time Hebrews was written (according to eh most reliable scholars) it speaks strongly against Paul being the author. It could have been Barnabbas. We just can't make a definitive conclusion on who wrote Hebrews.

Also given that it was written after Titus started the siege of Jerusalem, it would fall to one of the original apostles.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And that is God's blood, as Jesus is God manifested in the Flesh.
So, THAT blood is a little different then ours, as Jesus had no human father who created him from human seed..... so, he had no adamic nature.
The seed that created Jesus is God's Holy Spirit.

Correct!

 

[Behold]

MAYBE. But as Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles and was dead by the time Hebrews was written (according to eh most reliable scholars)

"reliable scholars" this term, is like the term : "smells pretty".
Its a meaningless term.
Listen, Im seminary trained and im trained in manuscript evidence.
I can talk about "extant greek texts" and the "western manuscripts".
I can turn on my exegesis vocabulary, and play that "scholar" role for you.
I can call myself a "scholar", but, i dont need it.
Im not in the ministry to elevate myself with TITLES.......as i have those.
They are MEANINGLESS., except they get you invited to preach, and sometimes they get you a job in a school.....and they look good on the back cover of a book.
Know what i mean?
So, avoid scholars, and stick with a bible believer, who is a Pauline Theologist, and you are way ahead of "scholarship", nonsense, in general.


Here is how you know its Paul, as the author of "hebrews".
IF you read Chapters 8-10, you find the "author" only talking about the Cross, the Blood of Jesus, and the end of the Law.
No other apostle talks like this.......only Paul. as that is all he talks about in his Epistles.
Also notice something else......in Acts 28....if you read the last 10 verses... then you'll note that this is a MIRROR of Hebrews 10:26.

Same Apostle, Same Christ rejecting HEBREWS in both Hebrews 10 and Acts 28.
Its the same APOSTLE.