Thank you for the reminder by posting on this thread, Jesus Fan. I need to get back to it today.
God bless,
- H
Hebrews 3-4: Not About Sabbath-Keeping
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Thank you for the reminder by posting on this thread, Jesus Fan. I need to get back to it today.
God bless,
- H
Acts recorded the change from sabbath observing to the Lords day, per the Apostles themselves!
sabbath part of the Mosaic law, if one has sabbath, one obligated to keep the entire Mosaic law!
Ok Christ4Me, this is a common interpretation many go with on these Chapters. I once subscribed to it myself, but no longer. It doesn't fit the context.
The problem here is this: If Hebrews 3 and 4 is a teaching on salvation, the parallel he is running is inconsistent with other uses of the Wilderness analogy used in the NT. Their salvation was not compared to entering the promised land but rather to being delivered out of Egypt, and how some lost that salvation when they turned back to sin.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:4-5)
And as quoted already, Paul also related our salvation to being delivered out of Egypt, having been "baptized" into Christ, and "eating" of His body and "drinking" from Him as their spiritual Rock:
10 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
This is the same point Hebrews 3:7-9 makes in discussing the provocation, when he states, "7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the provocation, in the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years." Because they turned back from Christ who was their salvation, he then went on to state, "10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’ 11 So I swore in My wrath they shall not enter My rest.’”
So you see then that salvation was not the issue here - LOSS of salvation maybe, but had already been saved out of Egypt. The references to "entering into His rest" were to entering into the promised land of Heaven and the kingdom of God when all was said and done, and as already stated, the millennial rest of a thousand years peace is when that kingdom will be established upon the earth.
Jesus himself didn't keep the sabbath as was practiced by the religious leaders of his and
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:1-2
9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” 11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:9-12
The other gospels also have accounts of things done by Jesus and his follower on the Sabbath.
Ok, ReChoired. Now to me, yours tends to downplay Hebrews Chapter 3 too much, as far as analyzing what the "sabbath rest" actually is goes. Granted, you are interpreting that rest to be the observance of the 7th day Sabbath, which I don't think fits well with what Chapter 3 is saying, but your links tend to gloss over Chapter 3 without addressing it much.
So let me ask you the following questions:
1. Do you believe the rest referred to in these verses is talking about the observance of the 7th day sabbath, or something else?
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the provocation, in the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’ 11 So I swore in My wrath they shall not enter My rest.’”
2. If you believe it is, why would God be saying "they shall not enter into My rest," since they were already observing the 7th day sabbath?
3. If the 7th day sabbath observance was in view here, and the writer's main contention throughout this teaching (i.e. including Chapter 4) is that the Israelites did not enter into that "rest," then why would this not be the focus of his condemnation against them? It appears instead that their real sin was in unbelief, and entering into rebellion and sin against God, and departing from Him altogether.
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the provocation.” 16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, not all who came out of Egypt led by Moses. 17 But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
These are more the kind of questions I would need to start off with, because I don't understand how the SDA position deals with them.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Again, Exodus chapter 16 shows that you are wrong.
The Mosaic Law was given at the same time as the 10 Commandments Deuteronomy 5:1-22, at Mt. Sinai. Which takes place in chapter 20 of Exodus. In chapter 16, prior to that, we have the Israelites obeying the Sabbath Command not to gather Manna on the 7th Day. Some do not obey and are punished.
"Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily." Exodus 16:4-5
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Jesus can't break the Sabbath. He is the Lord of it. Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5
Also it was a known right to feed on neighbors' fields.
Deuteronomy 23:25
Jesus also make the statement that King David and his soldiers were not at fault for eating the showbread from the Temple on the Sabbath.
If Jesus says it's ok, .... it is not a sin. All sin is against God. If God says it is no sin, it is no sin. Also the entire world belongs to God, He may do as he wishes.
How Jesus kept the Sabbath is how the Sabbath is to be kept. He honored the Father and acknowledged the Words of scripture. He did this EVERY Sabbath.
Luke 4:16
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
No, it doesn't. That's why you didn't provide a verse. It doesn't exist.
And the Lord's Day is defined by scripture itself in Isaiah 58:13. The only verse in scripture that refers to the Lord's Day is Revelation 1:10. Nothing whatsoever about the 1st day of the week.
There's only ONE Day that the Lord God has blessed and sanctified, and claims as His own.
Genesis 2:2-3
The 7th Day Sabbath.
You are in error.
https://ia904600.us.archive.org/21/...- The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD.png
When John wrote "the Lord's day" by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, he was doing so in the midst of a parallelism drawing from the OT, as well as speaking in regards the Law and Testimony. It refers to the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD.
Who did? Jesus? If you think this, you are in error.
https://ia803100.us.archive.org/34/items/john-5-vs-18-jesus-broke-the-sabbath-nutshell-image/John 5 vs 18 Jesus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png
Jesus is our (Christians) example (1 Peter 2:21 KJB) in living and life. If He transgressed (broke) the Sabbath commandment at any point, He cannot be the Saviour from sin (1 John 3:4 KJB), but would be the Author of it. Scripture (KJB), however, says:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." - 1 John 3:8 KJB
What I love about Exodus 16, is that it is directly connected to 1 Corinthians 10 and Revelation 14:6-7,12. As God "prove(d)" them, so to us, in the same.
Again, the "To day" is not the "My rest". The two are differing "days". Yet, the "my rest" (vs 11) refers to the same "my rest" (Psalms 95:11; Hebrews 3:11, 4:3,5 KJB), which is between Hebrews 4:3 and Hebrews 4:5, "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works." (Hebrews 4:4 KJB)
There is no other "my (God's) rest", or "his rest .... it" (Hebrews 4:1,10 KJB) in the context in Hebrews 3 or 4 or Psalms 95 or Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11.
The "to day" (the "another day" (Hebrews 4:8 KJB)) is the period of time (day) of grace to repent to obey God.
The "rest" of "God" (thus "my (God's) rest"), the seventh day, God's sabbath, can only be entered into, and consequently kept, by faith, because the entirety of God's Ten Commandments are "spiritual" (Romans 7:14 KJB)
If you had read the entirety of the study provided, and linked, you would have this answer already. However, as I stated before, they did NOT enter into the 7th day, God's sabbath rest. Hebrews 4 tells us why:
Heb 4:1 - Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
They did NOT enter into God's rest, the 7th day, which is "spiritual" (Romans 7:14 KJB) because of their lack of faith. See Numbers 14, Ezekiel 20; Psalms 95, Nehemiah 9; NT, etc, etc. God's professed people constantly transgressed the Sabbath, and God had to continually call them back to it.
They (most) were 7th day keepers, not sabbath keepers. The Pharisees, as such, were very meticulous about keeping the 7th day, not sabbath keeping, which Jesus had to show them the difference between the two things.
Unbelief leads to not keeping the commandment, even the seventh day, the sabbath of the LORD holy.
"whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23 KJB)
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4 KJB)
Doubt in the heart, leads to transgression in thought and action, sin, or not keeping the commandment.
Doubt is the root. The transgression is the fruit. Paul deals with the root, to pull up the whole error, "plucked up by the roots" as it were. Plucking at leaves does nothing to solve the heart of the matter, just as Jesus in Matthew 5-7, etc which is dealing with the Ten Commandments at the heart (faith) level.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.
Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.
Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index
I thank you for sharing but considering that not all saved believers will be ready when the Bridegroom comes is why it applies to the rapture event when God will judge His House first. This is where the least in the kingdom of God comes from that are still in it, in spite of breaking the least of His commandments and teaching others so in Matthew 5:19 This is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity that gets left behind to die and yet they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth to serve the king of kings on earth.
So those not found abiding in Him, will be left behind, their dead bodies scattered and left unburied all because they refused to enter the New Covenant by believing in Him for all things and rest in Him that they were complete in Christ as they trust Him to finish the race to His glory by helping them to lay aside every weight & sin so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Supper above.
That is how works that deny Him as Savior can be seen as coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ; be it looking to the Catholic Church to do the sacraments to obtain salvation by, to keep the sabbath day as if they are under the Old Covenant to obtain salvation by like the Jews, or keeping that commitment to follow Christ as if that is the power in living the Christian life rather than by faith in Jesus Christ, thus trying to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit, or seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit as if we are not always Spirit-filled since salvation so that our focus is on Jesus Christ in helping us to go on to perfection rather than engage in supernatural work denying Him as if we are not always Spirit-filled since salvation. Matthew 9:17 testifies we are not a leaky vessel for why we are saved & John 6:35 testifies we would never seek to be filled because we shall never hunger nor thirst again after coming to & having believed in Jesus Christ & Luke 11:9-13 testifies that the Father is not evil that He would give the holy Spirit again as if He did not do it the first time at our salvation for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.
There are a lot of errors and apostasy for how a saved believer can labor in unbelief and come short of that rest in Jesus Christ in entering Heaven to attend the Marriage Supper in His honor and to his glory for what He has done in having saved us; as the reason why we cab rest in Him now.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Great references. I made a note of them.
1 Corinthians 10:12 is a good dose of medicine for all who embrace OSAS and those who believe the Commandments are invalid now.
