Hebrews 3-4: Not About Sabbath-Keeping

[Hidden In Him]

You are in error, study this prayerfully please:

Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.

Or this:

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

Looks interesting, and should make for some interesting discussion. I'll go through it tomorrow (God willing), and thanks for the post.

Well, and maybe not. I was taking a brief look at this in advance, and I hate to sound dismissively critical here because that's not it, but these works are a bit of a theological train wreck. There seems to be no actual explanations other than simply citing verse after verse and expecting the reader to intuit what the writer is saying and what his positions are. Again, I hate to sound critical here, but that's not really exegesis. That's just... and forgive me, but I'm gonna call it the way I see it in a spirit of honesty - throwing out a lot of scripture without doing much in the way of teaching.

But there are at least the bones of an exegesis here, so we have something to work with. So I will approach this by going through, starting from Chapter 3, and ask you some pointed questions. You can give me your specific answers and we'll take it from there.

Talk to you then, and God bless.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are in error, study carefully please.

"The 7th SEALed in" study

Short:

https://archive.org/download/7th-sealed-in-revelation-8-vs-1-in-type-anti-type-snapshot/7th SEALed In - Revelation 8 Vs 1 in Type & Anti-TypeSnapshot.png

Long (PowerPoint):

7th SEALed In - Sermon - Study By brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Civil (See Evil) WAR - State of RuiNation

Long:
Civil (See Evil) War - State Of RuiNation, sermon study by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Cross-Bow: Enlightening the World, Revelation 6:1-2, etc.

CROSS BOW - Enlightening The World - Sermon Powerpoint brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

666:

Short:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-13-vs-18-666-snapshot-image/Revelation 13 Vs 18 - 666 - Snapshot Image.png

Many more here :

User Account

See all of the Sabbath and first day text studies, as for instance:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-1-vs-10-the-lords-day-the-seventh-day-the-sabbath-of-the-lord/Revelation 1 Vs 10 - The Lord's Day - The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD.png

Romans 14

https://archive.org/download/romans-14_202111/Romans 14.png

Colossians 2:

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-14-16-nutshell-image/Colossians 2vs14-16 Nutshell Image.png

John 5:18

https://archive.org/download/john-5-vs-18-jesus-broke-the-sabbath-nutshell-image/John 5 vs 18 Jesus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

LDS official sources:

https://archive.org/download/lds-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-aka-mormons-the-7th-day-is-t/LDS - The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (aka- Mormons) - The 7th Day Is The Sabbath - Their Own Sources Image.png

Pope Sylvester & Melanchthon:

https://archive.org/download/pope-sylvester-and-melanchthon-quotes-image/Pope Sylvester And Melanchthon Quotes Image.png

Acts 20:7

https://archive.org/download/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image/Acts 20 vs 7 Nutshell Image.png

1 Corinthians 16:

https://archive.org/download/1-corinthians-16-vs-2-nutshell-image/1 Corinthians 16 Vs 2 Nutshell Image.png

Matthew 11:28

https://archive.org/download/matthew-11-vs-28-is-jesus-the-sabbath-or-is-the-sabbath-the-rest-of-god-the-7th-day-image/Matthew 11 Vs 28 - Is Jesus The Sabbath Or Is The Sabbath The Rest Of God - The 7th Day Image.png

Hebrews 4:9

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

Hebrews 9:12

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-9-vs-12-the-holy-place-ta-hagia-image/Hebrews 9 Vs 12 The Holy Place Ta Hagia Image.png

Or see Investigative Judgment:

https://archive.org/download/investigative-judgment-antitypical-day-of-atonement-1844/Investigative Judgment Antitypical Day Of Atonement 1844.png

Or Scapegoat:

https://archive.org/download/scapegoat-azazel-satan-leviticus-16-nutshell-image/Scapegoat - Azazel - Satan - Leviticus 16 Nutshell Image.png

Or Jesus is True Israel:

https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png

Who Sabbath was really made for:

https://archive.org/download/who-was-the-sabbath-really-made-for-jesus/Who Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png

Or if a sermon study preferred, here's one on Christmas:

PowerPoint
EVER GREEN Sermon Powerpoint by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Video Sermon:
EVER GREEN - Sermon/Study by bother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This meanwhile would be complete overkill IMO, LoL.

 

[GEN2REV]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th day Sabbath, since the majority of Christians do not observe that day. Only unbelieving Jews cling to it, since they reject Christ.

Very crafty.

So it's because the majority of Christians don't observe it that the passage has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Interesting.

And it's because unbelieving Jews reject Christ that they are the only ones who can possibly still be keeping it.

That must be that new math.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I just can't send myself in a direction that makes no sense to me. It is a backwards task you are endeavoring and I can't gear myself that way.

Well I at least appreciate the honesty. But while I often feel the same way about people's position, I never react this way when an offer is made to discuss an actual passage or Chapter of scripture. To me that's exactly what I'm looking for, and if they can prove their case through exegesis, THEN I will take their position into more consideration. Unfortunately that's usually not the case.

Why don't you point out the specific verses you believe might refer to a millennium period and we'll discuss them one at a time? Does that not make much more sense?

That's just it. If you look at the OP, I am making the case throughout that the references are all to the 7 thousandth year, not to sabbath-keeping. Pointing out specific verses once again may lead us right back into the problem of taking this one or that one out of context.

 

[ReChoired]

Looks interesting, and should make for some interesting discussion. I'll go through it tomorrow (God willing), and thanks for the post.

I will take you at your, "yea". Hope to hear from you then.

 

[ReChoired]

Yes. God rested on the 7th day after six days of creation. But the passage in question is speaking about God's eternal rest through the redemptive work of Christ! So there are TWO divine rests in that passage. Which means that believers are to rest in Christ alone. This has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th day Sabbath, since the majority of Christians do not observe that day. Only unbelieving Jews cling to it, since they reject Christ.

The "to day" is differing from "the seventh day" in Hebrews 4. See my previously linked study, verse by verse.

The argument that a majority of persons which are designated Christians, is the fallacy of Ad majorem, or Ad populam. In other words, what does majority mean in regards truth? Simply that a majority believe or practice something does not automatically grant status of fact or truth. Read Revelation 12 & 13 & 17 the whole world, including many called christians are deceived.

Unbelieving Jews do not cling to the Sabbath, for it cannot be kept without faith in the Lord (Jesus) of the Sabbath. They are merely 7th day keepers, not Sabbath keepers.

 

[GEN2REV]

Why don't you point out the specific verses you believe might refer to a millennium period and we'll discuss them one at a time? Does that not make much more sense?

That's just it. If you look at the OP, I am making the case throughout that the references are all to the 7 thousandth year, not to sabbath-keeping. Pointing out specific verses once again may lead us right back into the problem of taking this one or that one out of context.

See, and this brings us allll the way back, the long way round, to my very first post in this thread. Post #11
QUOTE
Here is the simplest way to clear up this entire topic:

If A, Paul wrote the letter to the Hebrews, (Check)

and B, Paul was known to be a Sabbath Keeper, Acts 13:14-16; Acts 13:42; Acts 17:2; Acts 18:4; Acts 21:24; (Check)

then C, Paul was NOT saying anything about NOT keeping the Sabbath in the letter to the Hebrews. (Check)

Problem solved.

God bless. END QUOTE

You can't take the verses out of context, which implies that within context they prove your premise, if your premise is already disproven by the weight of scripture as a whole.

Paul, the author of Hebrews, would not be discussing the topic of a 7,000 year period and making reference to it as the Sabbath, or a sabbath, etc., IF he is an avid believer and keeper of the Sabbath.

NOWW we're done.

(Probably not.)

 

[Hidden In Him]

You can't take the verses out of context, which implies that within context they prove your premise, if your premise is already disproven by the weight of scripture as a whole.

Yes, probably not, LoL!

Thanks for the chuckle. That's a good place to leave it for the evening I believe, Lol.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You are in error, study carefully please.

"The 7th SEALed in" study

Short:

https://archive.org/download/7th-sealed-in-revelation-8-vs-1-in-type-anti-type-snapshot/7th SEALed In - Revelation 8 Vs 1 in Type & Anti-TypeSnapshot.png

Long (PowerPoint):

7th SEALed In - Sermon - Study By brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Civil (See Evil) WAR - State of RuiNation

Long:
Civil (See Evil) War - State Of RuiNation, sermon study by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Cross-Bow: Enlightening the World, Revelation 6:1-2, etc.

CROSS BOW - Enlightening The World - Sermon Powerpoint brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

666:

Short:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-13-vs-18-666-snapshot-image/Revelation 13 Vs 18 - 666 - Snapshot Image.png

Many more here :

User Account

See all of the Sabbath and first day text studies, as for instance:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-1-vs-10-the-lords-day-the-seventh-day-the-sabbath-of-the-lord/Revelation 1 Vs 10 - The Lord's Day - The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD.png

Romans 14

https://archive.org/download/romans-14_202111/Romans 14.png

Colossians 2:

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-14-16-nutshell-image/Colossians 2vs14-16 Nutshell Image.png

John 5:18

https://archive.org/download/john-5-vs-18-jesus-broke-the-sabbath-nutshell-image/John 5 vs 18 Jesus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

LDS official sources:

https://archive.org/download/lds-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-aka-mormons-the-7th-day-is-t/LDS - The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (aka- Mormons) - The 7th Day Is The Sabbath - Their Own Sources Image.png

Pope Sylvester & Melanchthon:

https://archive.org/download/pope-sylvester-and-melanchthon-quotes-image/Pope Sylvester And Melanchthon Quotes Image.png

Acts 20:7

https://archive.org/download/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image/Acts 20 vs 7 Nutshell Image.png

1 Corinthians 16:

https://archive.org/download/1-corinthians-16-vs-2-nutshell-image/1 Corinthians 16 Vs 2 Nutshell Image.png

Matthew 11:28

https://archive.org/download/matthew-11-vs-28-is-jesus-the-sabbath-or-is-the-sabbath-the-rest-of-god-the-7th-day-image/Matthew 11 Vs 28 - Is Jesus The Sabbath Or Is The Sabbath The Rest Of God - The 7th Day Image.png

Hebrews 4:9

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

Hebrews 9:12

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-9-vs-12-the-holy-place-ta-hagia-image/Hebrews 9 Vs 12 The Holy Place Ta Hagia Image.png

Or see Investigative Judgment:

https://archive.org/download/investigative-judgment-antitypical-day-of-atonement-1844/Investigative Judgment Antitypical Day Of Atonement 1844.png

Or Scapegoat:

https://archive.org/download/scapegoat-azazel-satan-leviticus-16-nutshell-image/Scapegoat - Azazel - Satan - Leviticus 16 Nutshell Image.png

Or Jesus is True Israel:

https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png

Who Sabbath was really made for:

https://archive.org/download/who-was-the-sabbath-really-made-for-jesus/Who Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png

Or if a sermon study preferred, here's one on Christmas:

PowerPoint
EVER GREEN Sermon Powerpoint by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Video Sermon:
EVER GREEN - Sermon/Study by bother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I think I sort of get the point...

 

[Paul Christensen]

It doesn't matter if Paul outright stated that it must be observed or not. There is plenty of evidence that he, and Jesus, observed the Sabbath weekly. That is enough to prove that he would not have taught otherwise.

There is still no scripture that states that it was ever rescinded as a Commandment. Therefore, it is a false obligation that a verse must be found that shows Paul commanding it be done. It was continuously being done from long prior to Christ's life, observed throughout Christ's life, and immediately continued on the night of His death on the cross.

It never stopped being observed.

True, but by orthodox Jews and SDAs...

 

[ReChoired]

Well, and maybe not. I was taking a brief look at this in advance, and I hate to sound dismissively critical here because that's not it, but these works are a bit of a theological train wreck. There seems to be no actual explanations other than simply citing verse after verse and expecting the reader to intuit what the writer is saying and what his positions are. Again, I hate to sound critical here, but that's not really exegesis. That's just... and forgive me, but I'm gonna call it the way I see it in a spirit of honesty - throwing out a lot of scripture without doing much in the way of teaching.

But there are at least the bones of an exegesis here, so we have something to work with. So I will approach this by going through, starting from Chapter 3, and ask you some pointed questions. You can give me your specific answers and we'll take it from there.

Talk to you then, and God bless.

Do you believe what these say, Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; Luke 24:45; Daniel 2:19-23,28-30?

If so, follow the texts provided.

If I interpret, I have left scripture. Scripture interprets itself, whether I exist to read it or not.

Most people that do 'exegesis' really 'exit Jesus' from their study. Most people that do 'eisigesis' really say to themselves, 'I see Jesus' in things that Jesus is not a part of or believes. In other words, they add or subtract from Jesus.

 

[Abigail]

Keep it if you want to. Don't if you don't want to. I don't think God is going to punish either way.

 

[ReChoired]

Keep it if you want to. Don't if you don't want to. I don't think God is going to punish either way.

History repeats, Ecc. 1:9, 3:15.

Zeph 1:12: "And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil."

 

[GEN2REV]

True, but by orthodox Jews and SDAs...

SDA's weren't founded 'til the 1860's.

Here's almost a whole city of Gentiles observing the Sabbath repeatedly, along with Paul and Barnabas.

"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue (on the Sabbath), the Gentiles besought that these words (of God) might be preached to them the next Sabbath. ... And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God."
Acts 13:42, 44

Note: there's no mention of any preaching whatsoever on the 1st day(or the 8th) of the week. All on the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[Paul Christensen]

SDA's weren't founded 'til the 1860's.

Here's almost a whole city of Gentiles observing the Sabbath repeatedly, along with Paul and Barnabas.

"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue (on the Sabbath), the Gentiles besought that these words (of God) might be preached to them the next Sabbath. ... And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God."
Acts 13:42, 44

Note: there's no mention of any preaching whatsoever on the 1st day(or the 8th) of the week. All on the 7th day Sabbath.

Your Scripture quote says that the whole city came together on one particular day to hear the Word of God. There is no mention of it being repeated. To say that the Gentiles repeatedly gathered on the Sabbath to hear the Word of God is reading into the Scripture what is not there. Perverting the Scripture don't do much to support your premise.

 

[farouk]

Your Scripture quote says that the whole city came together on one particular day to hear the Word of God. There is no mention of it being repeated. To say that the Gentiles repeatedly gathered on the Sabbath to hear the Word of God is reading into the Scripture what is not there. Perverting the Scripture don't do much to support your premise.

@Paul Christensen Sabbath-keeping was part of the law system.

But Hebrews 7.12 tells us that the law was changed.

Hebrews 7.19 tells us that what we now have is better than the law.

 

[GEN2REV]

Your Scripture quote says that the whole city came together on one particular day to hear the Word of God. There is no mention of it being repeated. To say that the Gentiles repeatedly gathered on the Sabbath to hear the Word of God is reading into the Scripture what is not there. Perverting the Scripture don't do much to support your premise.

Read it again.

"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue (on the Sabbath), the Gentiles besought that these words (of God) might be preached to them the next Sabbath. ... And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God."
Acts 13:42, 44

Do you see how the Gentiles are at the synagogue on the Sabbath day asking if the words of God that had just been preached there in their hearing could be preached to them again on the following Sabbath?

That's at least TWO Sabbaths in a row. THEN, we can accurately infer, if they ALL showed up that second Sabbath, that they were converted, or soon to be, and would continue to show up on the subsequent Sabbaths to keep learning about their new faith.

Is that fair?

(To be clear, I really only need 2 consecutive events to say 'repeated,' but I do see evidence there of more than that.)

 

[ReChoired]

@Paul Christensen Sabbath-keeping was part of the law system.

But Hebrews 7.12 tells us that the law was changed.

Hebrews 7.19 tells us that what we now have is better than the law.

You are in error.

The entire context of Hebrews 7 speaks to the carnal commandment to make men, of Levi, priests. There is no such command in the Ten Commandments, which are all spiritual.

The change of the law refers not to the Ten Commandments, but to the law of priest making. The priest is still required, but not of Levi, but instead of God's promise of one coming after the higher order of priesthood, Melchizedek.

 

[JesusFan1]

I was expecting this, and the answer is that the millennium will indeed be an observance of the sabbath rest that Paul was talking about in these two Chapters.

Go through the entire two Chapters for me and break down your interpretation of every verse. We will examine every phrase in every verse minutely together.

God bless,
- H

There is NO NT passage that states that the Church was placed back under the Sabbath, as that under the Mosaic Law, now superceded and replaced by new Covenant!

 

[JesusFan1]

Where are you from? Are you part of an organized church? Your doctrine is identical to what churches are teaching everywhere today and nowhere in the neighborhood of accurate scripture.

Here's your NONE that observed the Sabbath Day until it was given in Exodus chapter 20. It was discussed and given FOUR CHAPTERS prior to the Israelites even ARRIVING at Mt. Sinai. OOPS! Somebody taught you wrong.
Exodus 16:4-5
God TESTS the Israelites in the wilderness whether they would follow HIS LAW or not. What Law? Clearly the 10 Commandments; showcasing the 4th - the Sabbath Commandment. Strongly implying the Commandments had been given much earlier than that time even.
There never was such a command given because there never was a command given to ever STOP ANY of the 10 Commandments.

NONE before israel was given the Mosaic law ever kept it, as that was the sign between God and Israel was under thw OC, if you want sabbath, must haved the law also, they go together!bem