Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

Either way, you LOSE because you fail to understand that what James is saying in James 2:19 is that the demons DON'T have faith. They only have belief.

Why are you so dense, lol?
When you believe something you have a belief.
When you believe something you have faith.
Belief and faith are one and the same thing.
What you have faith and belief in is what determines if your belief/faith is able to make you righteous.
Only the belief that the blood of Christ can forgive your sin and make you righteous.
Your works, in turn, show if you possess that faith, just as Abraham's works showed that he possessed the faith that makes one righteous in God's sight.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"Pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".

That's right, it doesn't mean 'faith'. It means to 'have faith'. Because Pisteuo is a verb, not a noun. I showed you the Strong's definition of Pisteuo that says it means 'to have faith'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The demons spoken of in James 2:19 don't have "Faith "- they simply "believe"

I showed you that Pisteuo means 'to have faith'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you fail to understand that what James is saying in James 2:19 is that the demons DON'T have faith.

I understand perfectly that the demons don't have faith in the blood of Christ, but surely they have faith that God is one. Because that's what James said.

 

[TEXBOW]

Traditions can be a large stumbling block.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you prove your inability to discern what people say.

I never said such a thing. if you would have read what I said, you would have seen the following

and remember, that is the post you are responding to. So it makes it twice as bad

Ummmm, since YOU are negating every element of faith except for belief - this is the ONLY conclusion I can come to.

So - you'll have to define what YOU think "Faith" is again - because ALL of your posts point to simple belief without our cooperation with God's grace.

Think about it?
I have

Abraham was saved the moment he believed. But his belief was not just mere belief/ His believe produced alot of works. (sadly, his lack of faith also caused alot of sin) but he was still justified.

As paul said. Not because of works, Because salvation is not a wage or a reward. But because he had faith in God and God accounted to him righteousness.

Once again. James is talking to easy believers, Not people of true faith. And he is trying to get them to TEST their own faith. bu examining their life for works.

He is not talking to a person called BreadOfLife so he can go around and look at people to determine if they have faith or not.

Nor is he talking to BreadofLife who is trying to be saved ny his works. That is who Paul was speaking to

Once again, You need to listen to paul. Not James. James is not talking to you. The issue James was addressing is NOT your Issue

Thanks for that gigantic dodge.
Now – answer the question I originally asked of you:

WHY did Paul said in Rom. 4 that Abraham was NOT justified by works - when did James say that he WAS justified by works (James 2:21)?

These are seemingly contradictory statements. Why does Paul reject the idea that works are a PART of faith while James preaches the opposite?
So far – all you’ve done is dance around the issue.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Traditions can be a large stumbling block.

Like the traditions of your Protestant Fathers and their perversions of Scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ummmm, since YOU are negating every element of faith except for belief - this is the ONLY conclusion I can come to.

So - you'll have to define what YOU think "Faith" is again - because ALL of your posts point to simple belief without our cooperation with God's grace.

True faith has works.

You can bear false witness against me all you want. It just shows you need to repent of your breaking of Gods command.

I do not believe in mere belief for salvation. james said their faith is dead. And Jude said their condemnation was for ordained.

Thanks for that gigantic dodge.
Now – answer the question I originally asked of you:

WHY did Paul said in Rom. 4 that Abraham was NOT justified by works - when did James say that he WAS justified by works (James 2:21)?

These are seemingly contradictory statements. Why does Paul reject the idea that works are a PART of faith while James preaches the opposite?
So far – all you’ve done is dance around the issue.

I answered the question. You just do not like my answer

Once again,

Paul spoke about people like you. Who think they must work for salvation. He used abraham as an example. And said abraham was found by faith alone apart from works.

James speaks to the licentious. Easy believers who think they can say a sinners prayer and they are magically saved now they can live however they want. He called their faith dead. And said if they had faith, they would have works which showed their faith was real.

The fact is both are in danger of eternal death. As both, in pride, refuse to repent and give their eternity to Christ. They think they can do it there own way.

it wont word

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes. A man is shown to be righteous (justified) by what he does.

No - "Justified" is a condition.
If a person is unemployed - they are unemployed - not just "shown to be "out of woerk.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why are you so dense, lol?
When you believe something you have a belief.
When you believe something you have faith.
Belief and faith are one and the same thing.
What you have faith and belief in is what determines if your belief/faith is able to make you righteous.
Only the belief that the blood of Christ can forgive your sin and make you righteous.
Your works, in turn, show if you possess that faith, just as Abraham's works showed that he possessed the faith that makes one righteous in God's sight.

WRONG.

James's entire point is that beluef and faith are NOT the same thing. That's why he compared faith with a justified person in Christ and mere "belief" with the demons.

The fact that yoiy can read the 2nd Chapter of James's Epistle and NOT understand this is frightening . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I understand perfectly that the demons don't have faith in the blood of Christ, but surely they have faith that God is one. Because that's what James said.

WRONG - that's not "faith."

They lack the love, hope and obedience of faith.
They simply have belief in the FACT that God is One.

Knowing that 2+2=4 is not "faith".
It's just knowledge of a simple fact.

 

[BreadOfLife]

True faith has works.

You can bear false witness against me all you want. It just shows you need to repent of your breaking of Gods command.

I do not believe in mere belief for salvation. james said their faith is dead. And Jude said their condemnation was for ordained.

Coirrection: True faith WORKS.
It doesn't "have" works.

I answered the question. You just do not like my answer

Once again,

Paul spoke about people like you. Who think they must work for salvation. He used abraham as an example. And said abraham was found by faith alone apart from works.

James speaks to the licentious. Easy believers who think they can say a sinners prayer and they are magically saved now they can live however they want. He called their faith dead. And said if they had faith, they would have works which showed their faith was real.

The fact is both are in danger of eternal death. As both, in pride, refuse to repent and give their eternity to Christ. They think they can do it there own way.

it wont word

No - you flubbed up the answer.

Paul references the Law" no less than FIVE time in Romans 4.
THIS is what his readers understood as "works", in context.

Paul wasn't decrying the efficay of works - but works of the LAW and works that WE do in order to earn God's favor because they only serve to glorify US.

Janes, on the other hand wasa discussing how works are an essential elemnt of our faith. that faith is MUCH MORE than just "belief".

And make NO mistake - he is writing to born again Shristians - not "pretend believers". This is evident in Chapter 5, where he instructs them to confess their sins, pray for each other and to call for the presbyters when a pbrother is sick or dying so his sins can be forgiven.

 

[TEXBOW]

Like the traditions of your Protestant Fathers and their perversions of Scripture?

Lets not get into perversions again. I'll be up all night posting the highlights of your institution. The CC needs lots of "Fixers".

The Catholic Church Pays “Fixers” to Cover Up Sexual Abuse – Now They’re Speaking Out

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Coirrection: True faith WORKS.
It doesn't "have" works.

What a joke. Same difference

No - you flubbed up the answer.

Paul references the Law" no less than FIVE time in Romans 4.
THIS is what his readers understood as "works", in context.

Paul wasn't decrying the efficay of works - but works of the LAW and works that WE do in order to earn God's favor because they only serve to glorify US.

Janes, on the other hand wasa discussing how works are an essential elemnt of our faith. that faith is MUCH MORE than just "belief".

And make NO mistake - he is writing to born again Shristians - not "pretend believers". This is evident in Chapter 5, where he instructs them to confess their sins, pray for each other and to call for the presbyters when a pbrother is sick or dying so his sins can be forgiven.

Nope you screwed up

there was no law in abraham's day. So when Paul states abraham was not found by works, he means works of any kind

The same author says not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us.

Your works are not better than works of the law.

The law never saved them, The roman churches sacraments will never save you

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes. A man is shown to be righteous (justified) by what he does.

No - "Justified" is a condition.

No, I am correct. Justified means to be shown to be righteous:

justify
(ˈdʒʌstɪˌfaɪ)
vb (mainly tr) , -fies, -fying or -fied
1. (often passive) to prove or see to be just or valid

justify​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

he compared faith with a justified person in Christ and mere "belief" with the demons.

But the Greek word for believe, pisteuo, means to have faith. So how can you say the demons, who believe (James 2:19), don't have faith? You need to stop inventing a definition of pisteuo that does not exist.

Obviously, it's what the demons have faith about and the lack of results that believing produces that delineates the difference between the believing that justifies and the believing that does not. The demons believe that God is one. So what. That is believing that does not justify. Belief in the promise of God is what justifies, and that's the believing that produces works that validate the presence of that believing in a person.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The fact that yoiy can read the 2nd Chapter of James's Epistle and NOT understand this is frightening . . .

What's frightening is you claim 'faith' and 'belief' are two different things in the Greek language but you can't produce the Greek word for belief to prove that. I know the Greek noun for 'faith' is pistis. But what is the Greek noun for 'belief'?

 

[Oceanprayers]

OSAS. Always has been, always will be Biblical.

I like how you put that. I agree completely.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

WRONG - that's not "faith."

They lack the love, hope and obedience of faith.
They simply have belief in the FACT that God is One.

Knowing that 2+2=4 is not "faith".
It's just knowledge of a simple fact.

But 'pisteuo' means to 'have faith'. So how can you claim the believing of the demons that God is one is not faith? You're obviously adding to the meaning of the Greek language of the Bible where you should not, and can not, do that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lets not get into perversions again. I'll be up all night posting the highlights of your institution. The CC needs lots of "Fixers".

The Catholic Church Pays “Fixers” to Cover Up Sexual Abuse – Now They’re Speaking Out

Ummmm, we were talking about Catholic Traditions vs. Protestant traditions and SCRIPTURAL perversion of your Proterstant Fathers and their descendants.

I realize that you don't have ANY ammunition there - bur if you want to get iinto the discussion about where thew sexual pewrversion exists - I have PLENTYof ammo . . .

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Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

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Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

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Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says