Secure Eternal Salvation

[theefaith]

Nope

The blood of Christ makes you righteous.

the only way to receive the merits of the blood of Christ is by receiving Christ’s sacraments

You are free to ignor Christ? Mk 16:16

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But that's the very thing I've been getting you to see, lol!
'Faith' is not limited to 'faith in God'. Faith means faith in God when that's what is being referred to.
The demons have faith, they just don't have faith in the blood of Jesus.

The "Faith" spoken of in the Bible is ALL about God.
And the demons have BRLIEF (James 2:19) - NOT fsaith.

As I have REPEATEDLY shown you - "pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".
It ALSO means "Berlieve".
Pronunciation: pist-yoo'-o
Definition: 1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in 1a) of the thing believed 1a1) to credit, have confidence 1b) in a moral or religious reference 1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul 1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith 2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity 2a) to be intrusted with a thing

The English word "Believe" ALSO has multiuple meanings:
be·lieve
(bĭ-lēv′)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

v.intr.
1. To have firm faith, especially religious faith.
2. To have faith, confidence, or trust: I believe in your ability to solve the problem.
3. To have confidence in the truth or value of something: We believe in free speech.
4. To have an opinion; think: They have already left, I believe.

YOU problem is an ignorance of languages ans a refusal to acceopt inguistic facts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You love to focus on James 2 yet totally ignore Romans 4.

Instead of trying to find resolution. You just accept the passage that appears to support you while ignoring the other.

God does not need you to prove your faith. He is not so weak he is unable to determine your faith is correct or not.

James is refering to testing your own faith and your faith shown to others. He also said they CLAIMED to have faith. He never said they had faith.

They fail the eph 2 standard, because in eph 2 faith is required. Not works. and they did not even have faith The had belief only even demons believe and tremble

And again - YOU illustrate that YOUR definition of "Faith" is simply "believing".
Just beliving gets you a place right next to the demons (James 2:19).

Tell me - why do you suppose that if Paul said in Rom. 4 that Abraham was NOT justified by works - when did James say that he WAS justified by works (James 2:21)?
Think about it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If works did not come from faith we would not need faith to live for God. But it's the very fact that we can't live for God in our natural selves that we need faith - faith to produce the life that is pleasing to God that we can't produce without faith. As so the righteous life is indeed the result of having received the righteousness that is from God, not the procurer of that righteousness. Righteous works do not make a person righteous. Christ died for nothing if that were true.

And, yes, works are an essential element, or accompaniment, of having faith...just not in regard to making a man righteous. But they are indeed essential in regard to validating that faith is present in a person and is genuine. But they have zero value toward making you righteous in God's sight. Only the forgiveness of your sin guilt can do that. That's what makes justification a free gift. But your theology makes justification a debt owed to the person who works. The very works gospel that Paul condemned and warned us about.

And yet again, you reject the Bible . . .

James 2:24 KJV
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, but you're missing what it's saying. And so you claim it says something that is plain to see that it does not say.

No - I'm simply showing you that it doesn't say what YOU'RE tryong yo msake it say.
Namely, that works are a "byproduct" of faith.

That is simply NOT on the pages of Scripture - when read in CONTEXT . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Protestants understand perfectly that faith that does not produce works is not really faith. It is fake faith, or failed faith. Your error is saying faith is not faith until it does something. That's absurd. Faith is believing something. You don't have to do something to believe something. You believe something THEN you do something because you believe. It's absurd to say you don't believe something until you do something. How ridiculous.

And there we have yoiur admission that you don't have a CLUE as to what "Faith"" in God i
s.
Believing is just ONE ingredient which also requires LOVE (1 Cor. 13:2), WORKS (James 2:14-26, Gal. 5:6, Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22), OBEDIENCE (Matt. 16:24, John 14:15, 15:10) and HOPE (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).

If ALL you have is beliief - then you are NO better off than the demons (James 2:19) . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

how did they do it?

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The same way King David did it - Psalm 51.
Being under the law during the time of the old covenant he was required to die for his sin of adultery and murder according to the requirements of the law. But he made his appeal to God for mercy and he was forgiven through the blood of the eternal covenant (Hebrews 13:20). Even though the eternal covenant of blood had not been revealed yet. And so King David shows us how it was possible to be blameless even while still under the law in the old covenant.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The "Faith" spoken of in the Bible is ALL about God.

That's because the context of the Bible is God. Not the stock market, not the furniture you rely on, not the electricity you count on, etc. Faith in God is not the only thing that one can have faith in. But you seem to have defined faith as solely faith in God. That's where you're going wrong.

And the demons have BRLIEF (James 2:19) - NOT fsaith.

You've got a definite problem recognizing that 'believing' is simply the verb form of the noun 'faith'. When you have faith (have is a verb) that's called believing. Believing is an occurrence. The demons believe that God is one. The point being, big deal, that's not the faith that saves. Even if the demons added your Catholic works to their believing it still isn't the faith that justifies/saves. Because the faith that saves is faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. This is the point you're simply not getting. You've got this misguided determined agenda to define 'faith' as 'works'. Faith is one thing, works are another. They are not by definition one and the same thing. They go together, but they are not one and the same thing by definition as you are insisting. That's ridiculous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I have REPEATEDLY shown you - "pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".

Pisteuo doesn't mean 'faith'. Because 'faith' is a noun. Pisteuo is a verb. Piesteuo means to have faith. In English we call that 'believing'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And yet again, you reject the Bible . . .

James 2:24 KJV
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

And yet again you reject the context of the passage that shows us James is using the definition of justified 'to show to be righteous', not 'to make one righteous'.

"...I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
​

A man is indeed justified by works and not by faith only. He is justified by both.
Faith justifies in that it makes you righteous (definition #3 below).
Works justify in that they show you to be righteous (definition #1 below).

justify
(ˈdʒʌstɪˌfaɪ)
vb (mainly tr) , -fies, -fying or -fied
1. (often passive) to prove or see to be just or valid; vindicate: he was certainly justified in taking the money.
2. to show to be reasonable; warrant or substantiate: his behaviour justifies our suspicion.
3. to declare or show to be free from blame or guilt; absolve

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/justify​

This is the understanding that has evaded the Catholic church and led millions into a false, damnable works gospel. I am aware that it is impossible for you to accept this because you would have to abandon your Catholic beliefs to acknowledge the plain truth that I have presented above.

 

[Taken]

And yet again, you reject the Bible . . .

James 2:24 KJV
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

James 2:
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Justifi-ED for what?

Heartful confessed FAITH......justifies a man to Receive Gods Gift of Salvation, Gods Gift of Quickening...

Works that Glorifies God.......justifies a man to Receive Gods Gift of Rewards.

Receiving ... Salvation and Quickening IS ONE thing.
Receiving ... Rewards IS ANOTHER thing.

Each requires a man to BE JUSTIFIED, to receive those DIFFERENT things!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And again - YOU illustrate that YOUR definition of "Faith" is simply "believing".

And you prove your inability to discern what people say.

I never said such a thing. if you would have read what I said, you would have seen the following

They fail the eph 2 standard, because in eph 2 faith is required. Not works. and they did not even have faith The had belief only even demons believe and tremble

and remember, that is the post you are responding to. So it makes it twice as bad

Just beliving gets you a place right next to the demons (James 2:19).

Tell me - why do you suppose that if Paul said in Rom. 4 that Abraham was NOT justified by works - when did James say that he WAS justified by works (James 2:21)?
Think about it . . .

Think about it?

I have

Abraham was saved the moment he believed. But his belief was not just mere belief/ His believe produced alot of works. (sadly, his lack of faith also caused alot of sin) but he was still justified.

As paul said. Not because of works, Because salvation is not a wage or a reward. But because he had faith in God and God accounted to him righteousness.

Once again. James is talking to easy believers, Not people of true faith. And he is trying to get them to TEST their own faith. bu examining their life for works.

He is not talking to a person called BreadOfLife so he can go around and look at people to determine if they have faith or not.

Nor is he talking to BreadofLife who is trying to be saved ny his works. That is who Paul was speaking to

Once again, You need to listen to paul. Not James. James is not talking to you. The issue James was addressing is NOT your Issue

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Believing is just ONE ingredient which also requires LOVE

So you're saying faith requires works of the law, too, then, in order to make a person righteous.

 

[theefaith]

No excuse
The servant is not greater than the master!


Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect throughsufferings.

same for the servants

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No excuse
The servant is not greater than the master!


Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect throughsufferings.

same for the servants

Suffering does not make you legally righteous in God's sight. Only having your sins forgiven can do that. That's called justification.
Suffering has value toward making you righteous in behavior. That's called sanctification.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's because the context of the Bible is God. Not the stock market, not the furniture you rely on, not the electricity you count on, etc. Faith in God is not the only thing that one can have faith in. But you seem to have defined faith as solely faith in God. That's where you're going wrong.

Ummmmm, that's because we're discussing BIBLICAL faith - and NOT the "faaith" you have in the stock market or your favorit sports team.

If you can't understand that - then this entire discussion is pointless . . .

You've got a definite problem recognizing that 'believing' is simply the verb form of the noun 'faith'. When you have faith (have is a verb) that's called believing. Believing is an occurrence. The demons believe that God is one. The point being, big deal, that's not the faith that saves. Even if the demons added your Catholic works to their believing it still isn't the faith that justifies/saves. Because the faith that saves is faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. This is the point you're simply not getting. You've got this misguided determined agenda to define 'faith' as 'works'. Faith is one thing, works are another. They are not by definition one and the same thing. They go together, but they are not one and the same thing by definition as you are insisting. That's ridiculous.

And here you go again with your convoluted claptrap because you fail to understand that ONE word can have MULTIPLR meanins.
I already explaoined this to you - but it's worth explaining again . . .

"Pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".
It ALSO means "Berlieve":

Pronunciation: pist-yoo'-o
Definition: 1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in 1a) of the thing believed 1a1) to credit, have confidence 1b) in a moral or religious reference 1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul 1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith 2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity 2a) to be intrusted with a thing

The English word "Believe" ALSO has multiuple meanings:
be·lieve
(bĭ-lēv′)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

v.intr.
1. To have firm faith, especially religious faith.
2. To have faith, confidence, or trust: I believe in your ability to solve the problem.
3. To have confidence in the truth or value of something: We believe in free speech.
4. To have an opinion; think: They have already left, I believe.

The demons spoken of in James 2:19 don't have "Faith "- they simply "believe" aas YOU do.
Biblical, godly Faith requires MUCH more (Love, obedience, hope, works).

I spelled ALL of this out for you in post #1306.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pisteuo doesn't mean 'faith'. Because 'faith' is a noun. Pisteuo is a verb. Piesteuo means to have faith. In English we call that 'believing'.

Nice dodge . . .

Pkay - "pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "having faith".
It ALSO means "having Belief" (believing).

Either way, you LOSE because you fail to understand that what James is saying in James 2:19 is that the demons DON'T have faith. They only have belief.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And yet again you reject the context of the passage that shows us James is using the definition of justified 'to show to be righteous', not 'to make one righteous'.

"...I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
​

A man is indeed justified by works and not by faith only. He is justified by both.
Faith justifies in that it makes you righteous (definition #3 below).
Works justify in that they show you to be righteous (definition #1 below).

justify
(ˈdʒʌstɪˌfaɪ)
vb (mainly tr) , -fies, -fying or -fied
1. (often passive) to prove or see to be just or valid; vindicate: he was certainly justified in taking the money.
2. to show to be reasonable; warrant or substantiate: his behaviour justifies our suspicion.
3. to declare or show to be free from blame or guilt; absolve

justify​

This is the understanding that has evaded the Catholic church and led millions into a false, damnable works gospel. I am aware that it is impossible for you to accept this because you would have to abandon your Catholic beliefs to acknowledge the plain truth that I have presented above.

That MAY be what he is explaining in verse 18 - but that is NOT wjat he is saying un verse 24.
I even used YOUR KJV to illustrate this:
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

He flatly states that a person IS JUSTIFIED by works and NOT by faith alone.
He is NOT saying here that a man is SHON to be justified by works - but that he IS justified.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He is NOT saying here that a man is SHON to be justified by works - but that he IS justified.

Justified means 'to be shown to be righteous'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He flatly states that a person IS JUSTIFIED by works and NOT by faith alone.

Yes. A man is shown to be righteous (justified) by what he does.