Secure Eternal Salvation

[theefaith]

No, justified by faith, all by itself, apart from works. His humility is the result of his faith. Humility has no power to make one guiltless before God. Only God's forgiveness can do that.

more to come:

You render the Christian virtue of obedience meaningless!

Obedience to the will of God is the duty of men:

To God for creating us!
To the Christ for Redeeming us!
To the Holy Spirit for sanctifying us!

Ez 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The Christian virtue of obedience:

Humble submission to God!

Obedience:

Submission to proper authority.
To the will of God in all things, and proper authority established by God in the government, family, the workplace, and the authority of Christ exercised in Holy mother church.

 

[theefaith]

You render the Christian virtue of obedience meaningless!

Obedience to the will of God is the duty of men:

To God for creating us!
To the Christ for Redeeming us!
To the Holy Spirit for sanctifying us!

Ez 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The Christian virtue of obedience:

Humble submission to God!

Obedience:

Submission to proper authority.
To the will of God in all things, and proper authority established by God in the government, family, the workplace, and the authority of Christ exercised in Holy mother church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You render the Christian virtue of obedience meaningless!

For being MADE righteous, yes, works of obedience mean nothing.

Obedience to the will of God is the duty of men:

Yes it is.
But what it is not is how men are made righteous. Only having your sins forgiven does that. Only forgiveness of sin wipes it away so as to make you guiltfree and righteous in God's sight.

The Christian virtue of obedience:

...is wonderful, but it won't make you righteous in God's sight. Only having your sin wiped away through God's forgiveness does that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Submission to proper authority.
To the will of God in all things, and proper authority established by God in the government, family, the workplace, and the authority of Christ exercised in Holy mother church.

Except for the 'holy mother church' garbage these are correct examples of submission to authority. But none of these examples of submission will make you righteous. Only having your sin wiped away through faith in God's forgiveness does that. That is the righteousness that comes from God through faith. Not the righteousness you give to God through your doings.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

next
What about repentance?
True Contrition for sin?
True Sorrow for offending God?
Compunction of heart?

These are the result of hearing about and having faith in the gospel of God's forgiveness in Christ. These things in and of themselves do not make you righteous. Only God's forgiveness can remove sin guilt and make you righteous in his sight.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nice TRY - but that's NOT even what James was explaining in verse 19.

Pay attentiion:
James 2:18-19
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

James is conp[aring the FAITH (albeit incomplete faith) of some of his readers to that of the demons. According to James - thoier faith is EXACTLY olike the demons because they don't have WORKSm which complete a person's faith - they don't "result" from it.

Faith = Beolief + Works.
THAT'S whatr James is trying to get across to them - and YOU.

I showed you the exact word James uses in James 2:19 is 'pisteuo' and that it means 'to have faith' and you just decide to blow it off. What are we going to do with you, lol?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Even to the rejection of the gospel and scripture say you!

rejection of the teaching authority of the church is rejection of Christ! Matt 18:17

What about repentance?
True Contrition for sin?
True Sorrow for offending God?
Compunction of heart?

Sorry my friend, I listen to jesus

I also listen to John and Paul, they are the church or have you forgotten that

 

[BreadOfLife]

I do take him seriously. In fact I do all of those things (or have done them)

The difference between you and I is you do them hoping because if it you will earn salvation.

I do them because I am saved, and out of gratitude to the one who gave me eternal life.

WRONG again.

I do them because God created those things for me to do in advance (Eph. 2:10) as part of my faith, which is obedience.
If you're doing them solely as a "thank you" to God and NOT aas part of your faith in obedience to Him- then you are missing the point.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I showed you the exact word James uses in James 2:19 is 'pisteuo' and that it means 'to have faith' and you just decide to blow it off. What are we going to do with you, lol?

Nah - I simply educated you about the fat that this is the SAME word, "pisteuo" (πιστευο) that James uses in James 2:19 for the demons.

James is comparing FAITH with includes works - with BELIEF, which doesn't - and which id what the demnons anf YOU have . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG again.

I do them because God created those things for me to do in advance (Eph. 2:10) as part of my faith, which is obedience.
If you're doing them solely as a "thank you" to God and NOT aas part of your faith in obedience to Him- then you are missing the point.

lol.

Love how you twist my words. and then think you have me

It is my FAITH WHICH SAVED ME,

it is my FAITH and GRATITUDE and the LOVE OF GOD POURED OUT ON ME which produces works.

I love because God loved me first and saved me from myself.

not because I have some special power to love of my own will.

Thats why I needed saved to begin with.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

this is the SAME word, "pisteuo" (πιστευο) that James uses in James 2:19 for the demons.

Which I showed you means 'to have faith', yet you say the demons do not have faith. I'm confident that they do not have righteous works, but James plainly says they believe, which means by definition 'to have faith'. Where you're going wrong is 1) you're ignoring the context that tells us what the demons have faith about, and 2) you've ignorantly defined 'faith' as 'faith and works', as if they were by definition one and the same thing. By doing that the Catholics have effectively made the gospel of Jesus Christ the very works gospel Paul warned us about.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Which I showed you means 'to have faith', yet you say the demons do not have faith. I'm confident that they do not have righteous works, but James plainly says they believe, which means by definition 'to have faith'. Where you're going wrong is 1) you're ignoring the context that tells us what the demons have faith about, and 2) you've ignorantly defined 'faith' as 'faith and works', as if they were by definition one and the same thing. By doing that the Catholics have effectively made the gospel of Jesus Christ the very works gospel Paul warned us about.

WRONG.

James's entire point is that you CANNOT have faith UNLESS you have works (James 2:14-26), whioch complete faith (James 2:22). They don't "resultt from" faiuth - they are and ingregient OF faith.

YOUE argumernt is as ignorant as claiming that a cake produces eggs. Eggs are an essential ingredient OF cake.
SAMNE goes for works and faith . . .

 

[theefaith]

For being MADE righteous, yes, works of obedience mean nothing.


Yes it is.
But what it is not is how men are made righteous. Only having your sins forgiven does that. Only forgiveness of sin wipes it away so as to make you guiltfree and righteous in God's sight.


...is wonderful, but it won't make you righteous in God's sight. Only having your sin wiped away through God's forgiveness does that.

Really?

Obedience

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 16:19
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone, but to suffer for Christ

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

They don't "resultt from" faiuth - they are and ingregient OF faith.

So, we should just throw out all those verses about works resulting from faith?

 

[BreadOfLife]

lol.

Love how you twist my words. and then think you have me

It is my FAITH WHICH SAVED ME,

it is my FAITH and GRATITUDE and the LOVE OF GOD POURED OUT ON ME which produces works.

I love because God loved me first and saved me from myself.

not because I have some special power to love of my own will.

Thats why I needed saved to begin with.

And I've ALREADY shjown you that YOU didn't "produuce" anything - GOD pproduced those works for you to do as a completion OF fauth, not as a result FROM it

HE gets the glory for those works. YOU'RE simpoky doing what HE arranged in advance for you to do as the completion of your faith. THAT'S what it means to be "His handiwork" (Eph. 2:10).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James's entire point is that you CANNOT have faith UNLESS you have works (James 2:14-26)

I believe that a person can make money in the stock market.
How is that not faith?

If and when I invest in the stock market, that's when you know that I have faith that you can make money in the stock market. See how that works?

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, we should just throw out all those verses about works resulting from faith?

There arenb't any - for the one who understands God's Word.
They ALL point to the fact that works COMPLETE faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe that a person can make money in the stock market.
How is that not faith?

If and when I invest in the stock market, that's when you know that I have faith that you can make money in the stock market. See how that works?

If you can't understand that "faith" in your finances is NOT the same thing as faith iun God - then I really can't help you . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Really?

Obedience

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 16:19
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone, but to suffer for Christ

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Yes, really.
None of these verses about obedience say you make yourself righteous by doing righteous things. That would be the very works gospel Paul warns against.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you can't understand that "faith" in your finances is NOT the same thing as faith iun God - then I really can't help you . . .

But that's the very thing I've been getting you to see, lol!
'Faith' is not limited to 'faith in God'. Faith means faith in God when that's what is being referred to.
The demons have faith, they just don't have faith in the blood of Jesus.