Once you join a church you will be accountable...

[FHII]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

Accountable?

For what? What are you accountable once you join a Church?

Let me expand the question: what are you NOW accountable for (now that you joined a Church) that you weren't accountable before?

Well, as a Christian who is covered by grace through faith, you are not accountable for your sins. That is past sins for some churches... But for a true Church its all sins, past, present and future!

Are you accountable for attendance? Yep! Hebrews 10:25. Is that a problem? Do you have something better to do than come to the house of God, to learn of him, and praise him?

Maybe you just don't like being associated with a bunch of hypocrites and fake Christians... Maybe they feel the same way about you... Just saying...

Perhaps its the Preacher! Well if it is, why are you there? Is he a sinner (like you)? Does he not measure up (like you)? Fella... Unless he is knowingly not preaching the truth, what's the problem?

Oh.... One more thing... Is is the giving? Don't like to give? Don't like paying tithes? Is that it? Why, that dirty money loving preacher isn't deserving of your hard earned money!

So... What are you accountable that is upsetting?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

would the evil one have earned salvation if he had put the talent-weight in a bank?

No, of course not. You know that, right? Sharing the truths of God is not what saves a person.

was he ever saved?

Apparently not, since he did nothing with the knowledge of God he had received. His fruitless, unproductive life being evidence of the absence of salvation and a love of the truth.

did he lose salvation by not being clever enough?

It's isn't about being clever. Shrewd, perhaps, but not clever. It's about what you did with what you knew.

was he not smart enough to be saved in the first place? ((ability))

It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. It does have to do with being educated about the kingdom (how will they believe if they do not hear?), and if the potential of a person's heart is such that it will respond to the knowledge of God. That potential being the ability that Jesus is talking about. Some soil, some servants, simply do not have the potential - the ability - to cherish and retain and grow the word of God when nurtured by the grace of God. That's just who they are.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I watched a documentary of Mormonism that interviewed people from the Mormon church. I'm sorry, but based on the things they exposed I have to put the Mormon church in the category of a cult.

This isn't a documentary. It's a YouTube tabloid-style video put together by Lynn Wilder, an ex-Mormon lady who makes her money giving out horribly inaccurate information to other non-LDS Christian folks. It's laughably inaccurate and agenda driven. Still, if you want to talk about any of it, feel free to ask here or via PM.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Accountable?

For what? What are you accountable once you join a Church?

Let me expand the question: what are you NOW accountable for (now that you joined a Church) that you weren't accountable before?

Well, as a Christian who is covered by grace through faith, you are not accountable for your sins. That is past sins for some churches... But for a true Church its all sins, past, present and future!

Are you accountable for attendance? Yep! Hebrews 10:25. Is that a problem? Do you have something better to do than come to the house of God, to learn of him, and praise him?

Maybe you just don't like being associated with a bunch of hypocrites and fake Christians... Maybe they feel the same way about you... Just saying...

Perhaps its the Preacher! Well if it is, why are you there? Is he a sinner (like you)? Does he not measure up (like you)? Fella... Unless he is knowingly not preaching the truth, what's the problem?

Oh.... One more thing... Is is the giving? Don't like to give? Don't like paying tithes? Is that it? Why, that dirty money loving preacher isn't deserving of your hard earned money!

So... What are you accountable that is upsetting?

The thread is not related to accountability for sins. It relates to leaving a specific church and that church teaching that doing so will make a person condemned by God. This includes joining a different church than that church.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I watched a documentary of Mormonism that interviewed people from the Mormon church. I'm sorry, but based on the things they exposed I have to put the Mormon church in the category of a cult.

I actually went thru something similar to what they describe when I became disabled and could no longer function as the bread winner in the family. My wife divorced me married another Mormon and eventually took my kids to another state and had them adopted by their step father. She even took my car in the divorce and left me homeless. It was tragic. But it was also a series of unfortunate events that lead up to all of this so I just consider it misfortune. But I did see similarities in the video to my story.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The thread is not related to accountability for sins. It relates to leaving a specific church and that church teaching that doing so will make a person condemned by God. This includes joining a different church.

Neither Catholicism or "Mormonism" teach this.

In Catholicism, it's "once a Catholic always a Catholic". It is literally impossible to wirthdraw membership, even if you never ever believed in the first place (like being baptized as a baby). They don't believe that being baptized = automatically getting to heaven, but that's a separate issue versus church membership. (Disclaimer: I'm not a Catholic, if a practicing Catholic knows better please correct me)/

In "Mormonism", you can indeed choose to formally resign. But even if "Bob" chooses to resign and become an unapologetic sinful atheist forever, the LDS Christian view is that Bob still spends eternity crazy happy. It's a good/better/best view of the afterlife.

 

[Raccoon1010]

In "Mormonism", you can indeed choose to formally resign. But even if "Bob" chooses to resign and become an unapologetic sinful atheist forever, the LDS Christian view is that Bob still spends eternity crazy happy. It's a good/better/best view of the afterlife.

Yes but he'll be under Satan's power. Which sounds condemned. And what exactly does that mean since the bible teaches that people that don't follow Christs teachings end up in the lake of fire. Or does your church disagree with those teachings?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes but he'll be under Satan's power.

EVERYONE is tempted, even Christ was tempted! And everyone besides Christ does fall and screw up, even the most devoted follower of Christ. Follow in His ways does fortify a person and make it easier to avoid falling and easier to clean up, but it doesn't mean you'll never be tempted or fall.

And what exactly does that mean since the bible teaches that people that don't follow Christs teachings end up in the lake of fire. Or do you disagree with those teachings?

The belief that "if you don't follow our church, you're going to be damned to an enteral barbeque forever" is largely a Protestant one.
Catholic Christians have their views of Purgatory and baptism by desire.
LDS Christians believe such torture is temporary until the Final Judgement and all person receive some degree of happiness/glory, the worst of which is absolutely mind-boggling happiness forever.

 

[Raccoon1010]

EVERYONE is tempted, even Christ was tempted! And everyone besides Christ does fall and screw up, even the most devoted follower of Christ. Follow in His ways does fortify a person and make it easier to avoid falling and easier to clean up, but it doesn't mean you'll never be tempted or fall.

The belief that "if you don't follow our church, you're going to be damned to an enteral barbeque forever" is largely a Protestant one.
Catholic Christians have their views of Purgatory and baptism by desire.
LDS Christians believe such torture is temporary until the Final Judgement and all person receive some degree of happiness/glory, the worst of which is absolutely mind-boggling happiness forever.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Note: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormons", I am one) totally acknowledge that other folks are Christian too, have good things, and will be spending eternity dancing around with Christ. LDS Christians do believe that LDS Christian theology is most correct, just like Baptist Christians believe that theology is most correct, and every other group does.

The big problem Christians have with the Mormons Jane is they created another testament! with special glasses and gold tablets. this testament makes wild unprovable claims and contradicts the New testament of the bible in critical doctrines. All Mormons I have met are very cordial, friendly and caring people. They are a joy to be around! but being caring, friendly and loving does not save a soul and cannot make up for the false doctrines found in teh Book of Mormon and Doctrines and Covenants.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thanks for your input.

My heart breaks for you and your rough divorce. Obviously I don't know your full story and can't comment on that. But it is NOT acceptable to divorce somebody just because they have chosen to leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let alone the run off to another state & all.

But no, LDS Christians don't view you as "damned" at all. I certainly don't!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The big problem Christians have with the Mormons Jane is they created another testament! with special glasses and gold tablets. this testament makes wild unprovable claims and contradicts the New testament of the bible in critical doctrines. All Mormons I have met are very cordial, friendly and caring people. They are a joy to be around! but being caring, friendly and loving does not save a soul and cannot make up for the false doctrines found in teh Book of Mormon and Doctrines and Covenants.

If you (or anyone else) have concerns about my beliefs in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, feel free to ask me here or via PM. Christ is my Savior, my King, and without whom I would literally not be here. And yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a "Mormon". I am a Christian. Not a Protestant Christian, nor a Catholic Christian, but Christian nonetheless.

 

[Raccoon1010]

My heart breaks for you and your rough divorce. Obviously I don't know your full story and can't comment on that. But it is NOT acceptable to divorce somebody just because they have chosen to leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let alone the run off to another state & all.

But no, LDS Christians don't view you as "damned" at all. I certainly don't!

I'm anonymous so let me explain: My wife wanted to have children. I couldn't have them the natural way so we went thru IVF. My operation got infected and they put me on pain meds. I have schizophrenia and could work for 10 years after I came down with it, which was in my 20's. But the pain meds didn't go well with my brain chemistry. I got really bad daily migraines that further disabled me. They kept me on the pain meds so I could still work. But my sanity failed and I started losing jobs one after the other. I got the infection cleared up but it was too late and they kept me on the pain meds for the chronic headaches. It was the only way I could function. When no one would hire me any longer we went to the bishop for help. We got about 2 bags of groceries from him before he told me there was nothing wrong with me and that he wasn't going to help anymore. And I think that hurt my wife, who then asked me to leave. I was also hurt as I had paid about $25,000 in tithes over a 10 year period and needed help.

I went back to mormon church a few times, but that was basically the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm anonymous so let me explain: My wife wanted to have children. I couldn't have them the natural way so we went thru IVF. My operation got infected and they put me on pain meds. I have schizophrenia and could work for 10 years after I came down with it, which was in my 20's. But the pain meds didn't go well with my brain chemistry. I got really bad daily migraines that further disabled me. They kept me on the pain meds so I could still work. But my sanity failed and I started losing jobs one after the other. I got the infection cleared up but it was too late and they kept me on the pain meds for the chronic headaches. It was the only way I could function. When no one would hire me any longer we went to the bishop for help. We got about 2 bags of groceries from him before he told me there was nothing wrong with me and that he wasn't going to help anymore. And I think that hurt my wife, who then asked me to leave. I was also hurt as I had paid about $25,000 in tithes over a 10 year period and needed help.

I went back to mormon church a few times, but that was basically the straw that broke the camels back.

Again, I don’t know the full story here.

But my heart does go out that you local bishop failed to see mental illness as a real illness. People in society so often do- I know that first hand. Along with the difficulties infertility brings.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you (or anyone else) have concerns about my beliefs in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, feel free to ask me here or via PM. Christ is my Savior, my King, and without whom I would literally not be here. And yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a "Mormon". I am a Christian. Not a Protestant Christian, nor a Catholic Christian, but Christian nonetheless.

Well let me ask you a few questions if I may.

I have lots of respect for Glenn Beck and believe he is saved though a Mormon.

Do you believe that Jesus is God inhuman flesh?
Do you believe that Satan is Jesus brother?
Do you believe that Jesus has existed for all eternity?
Do you believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead in the body He died in?
Finally, do you believe that it is by faith alone in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for ones sins, that a person is saved?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

 

[FHII]

The thread is not related to accountability for sins. It relates to leaving a specific church and that church teaching that doing so will make a person condemned by God. This includes joining a different church than that church.

Ok, in that sense, I agree, and thank you for clarifying it.

I don't think Peter would condemn anyone for leaving him to join Paul, or vive versa. Its one truth but with a different perspective. Why would anyone do that, though? Why leave Paul for Peter?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Ok, in that sense, I agree, and thank you for clarifying it.

I don't think Peter would condemn anyone for leaving him to join Paul, or vive versa. Its one truth but with a different perspective. Why would anyone do that, though? Why leave Paul for Peter?

A lot of people have come at me with the accountability of sin and obeying church leadership. I must have not clarified that in the OP. But yeah I was more worried about churches that claim authority and say that if you leave your condemned cause you're following a false church.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Do you believe that Jesus is God inhuman flesh?

Yes, that is essential theology in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormon").

Do you believe that Satan is Jesus brother?

There's no special relationship between Christ & Lucifer/Satan. Jesus Christ alone is the Son of God, perfectly obedient Son to the Father. Lucifer flat out rebelled from the Father and was cast out. You couldn't name two more different people.

Do you believe that Jesus has existed for all eternity?
Do you believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead in the body He died in?
Finally, do you believe that it is by faith alone in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for ones sins, that a person is saved?

Yes, to all of those. They are all essential theology.

Caveat about the "faith alone" one: being saved by faith doesn't mean you have a license to sin. Christ does say "If you love me, keep my commandments" and His disciples should at least try to do so.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Totally happy to answer :)

 

[Raccoon1010]

Again, I don’t know the full story here.

 

[theefaith]

Accountable?

For what? What are you accountable once you join a Church?

Let me expand the question: what are you NOW accountable for (now that you joined a Church) that you weren't accountable before?

Well, as a Christian who is covered by grace through faith, you are not accountable for your sins. That is past sins for some churches... But for a true Church its all sins, past, present and future!

Are you accountable for attendance? Yep! Hebrews 10:25. Is that a problem? Do you have something better to do than come to the house of God, to learn of him, and praise him?

Maybe you just don't like being associated with a bunch of hypocrites and fake Christians... Maybe they feel the same way about you... Just saying...

Perhaps its the Preacher! Well if it is, why are you there? Is he a sinner (like you)? Does he not measure up (like you)? Fella... Unless he is knowingly not preaching the truth, what's the problem?

Oh.... One more thing... Is is the giving? Don't like to give? Don't like paying tithes? Is that it? Why, that dirty money loving preacher isn't deserving of your hard earned money!

So... What are you accountable that is upsetting?

All you’re sins are covered, not biblical
There would be no need to repent and confess you’re sins
Jn 20:23