Can Someone Please Define What a Christian is?

[Aunty Jane]

You said, "If Jesus was God, then he would have had miraculous abilities from birth." Are you suggesting that Jesus had no miraculous abilities at all?

Did I say that? If I alluded to his first miracle then please assume that I certainly do acknowledge his miraculous abilities. He also gave his apostles miraculous abilities by the use of his name before his death and resurrection. (Matthew 10:1; 5-8) This was before Pentecost.

Also, where in Scripture does it say that Jesus entrusted Mary into the care of the Apostles John because His siblings were not yet believers? That is the first I have ever heard that before....I can't find it in The Bible.

As the firstborn son in his family, since Mary was by now obviously a widow, he was responsible for the care of his mother until he reached the age of 30....at which age he presented himself to John the Baptist to begin is ministry as God’s anointed (Christ)

Matthew 13:53-58 and Luke 8:19-21 speak of Jesus fleshly family members, but he extended his family to include his disciples. In giving his mother's care over to the apostle John, Jesus was concerned with his mother’s spiritual welfare, more so than her physical care. (John 19:26-27)

John 7:2-9 tells us that his siblings were aware of his new abilities, but had not yet put faith in him as Messiah, this took place only after Jesus’ death and resurrection. His half-brother James being the writer of the book bearing his name.

 

[Marymog]

Did I say that? If I alluded to his first miracle then please assume that I certainly do acknowledge his miraculous abilities. ..

Well, I quoted you (cut and paste) so YES you did say that. But there must have been a misunderstanding on my part.

So since we agree that Jesus had "miraculous abilities" then I am pondering something.

You stated, "If Jesus was God, then he would have had miraculous abilities from birth. There is no account of him being able to perform miracles as a child,....". Of which I agree. Scripture does not say he performed any miracles as a child.

Yet Mary asked Jesus to take care of the lack of wine problem at the wedding. Why did she ask him to do that? Certainly, she wasn't expecting him to go buy some wine. So why did she assume he was going to provide wine? In what way do you think she assumed he would provide the wine?

Mary

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well, I quoted you (cut and paste) so YES you did say that. But there must have been a misunderstanding on my part.

So since we agree that Jesus had "miraculous abilities" then I am pondering something.

You stated, "If Jesus was God, then he would have had miraculous abilities from birth. There is no account of him being able to perform miracles as a child,....". Of which I agree. Scripture does not say he performed any miracles as a child.

Yet Mary asked Jesus to take care of the lack of wine problem at the wedding. Why did she ask him to do that? Certainly, she wasn't expecting him to go buy some wine. So why did she assume he was going to provide wine? In what way do you think she assumed he would provide the wine?

Mary

Mary was aware that Jesus was baptised and all onlookers saw the figure of a dove descend upon Jesus and God’s voice was heard approving of his course of action....the dedicating of himself now to do God’s will exclusively as Messiah.

Mary was his closest relative so of course she was aware of this, she may have witnessed his baptism herself, but the account does not say.

Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days after his baptism (Luke 4:1-2) because, as the account says....”the heavens were opened” to Jesus at that time and his former life revealed to him. (Matthew 3:16-17) 40 days in the wilderness without food or water, he was sustained by the Holy Spirit that was now abiding in him, to give him all the power necessary to accomplish what he was sent to earth to do. (John 6:38) His first hurdle was the temptations of the devil. (Luke 4:2-13) He succeeded in overcoming each one with reference to God’s word....”it is written”...

 

[Marymog]

Mary was aware that Jesus was baptised and all onlookers saw the figure of a dove descend upon Jesus and God’s voice was heard approving of his course of action....the dedicating of himself now to do God’s will exclusively as Messiah.

Mary was his closest relative so of course she was aware of this, she may have witnessed his baptism herself, but the account does not say.

Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days after his baptism (Luke 4:1-2) because, as the account says....”the heavens were opened” to Jesus at that time and his former life revealed to him. (Matthew 3:16-17) 40 days in the wilderness without food or water, he was sustained by the Holy Spirit that was now abiding in him, to give him all the power necessary to accomplish what he was sent to earth to do. (John 6:38) His first hurdle was the temptations of the devil. (Luke 4:2-13) He succeeded in overcoming each one with reference to God’s word....”it is written”...

Gosh....I guess I'm not making myself clear. I am not sure why you are going BACK to his baptism and his temptations in the desert etc etc. I simply want to know one simple thing:

Why did Mary assume Jesus was going to provide wine at the wedding after the wine had run out?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Gosh....I guess I'm not making myself clear. I am not sure why you are going BACK to his baptism and his temptations in the desert etc etc. I simply want to know one simple thing:

Why did Mary assume Jesus was going to provide wine at the wedding after the wine had run out?

Mary knew that he had been anointed with God's spirit.....she herself was "overshadowed" by the spirit of God when she conceived in her womb the child who would become that "anointed one". She waited 30 years for that to happen.

I don't understand what you are asking? Did she know her son was to be the Messiah....that is basically what Gabriel told her. She expected what took place, but not in detail. She knew scripture and how God's spirit was used in the Hebrew writings. Miracles were nothing new to the ancient Jews, but basically absent when the Jews abandoned true worship in favor of their own traditions, which was long before Christ began his ministry. He came to lead "the lost sheep" out of that corruption and into a new pen with a new covenant. He was not sent to the incorrigible Jewish leaders. They had no intention of repenting.

I believe that Christendom is a mirror image of apostate Judaism. They too have given in to man made traditions and have likewise been abandoned by God. (Matthew 15:7-9; Matthew 23:37-39)

 

[Marymog]

Mary knew that he had been anointed with God's spirit.....she herself was "overshadowed" by the spirit of God when she conceived in her womb the child who would become that "anointed one". She waited 30 years for that to happen.

I don't understand what you are asking? Did she know her son was to be the Messiah....that is basically what Gabriel told her. She expected what took place, but not in detail. She knew scripture and how God's spirit was used in the Hebrew writings. Miracles were nothing new to the ancient Jews, but basically absent when the Jews abandoned true worship in favor of their own traditions, which was long before Christ began his ministry. He came to lead "the lost sheep" out of that corruption and into a new pen with a new covenant. He was not sent to the incorrigible Jewish leaders. They had no intention of repenting.

I believe that Christendom is a mirror image of apostate Judaism. They too have given in to man made traditions and have likewise been abandoned by God. (Matthew 15:7-9; Matthew 23:37-39)

Ok...so, the point I was wanting to make is that from the reading of that passage is that she KNEW that Jesus would perform a miracle. So it is possible that she knew that from birth he could perform miracles. Why did she possibly know this? Is it possible that he performed miracles as a child? I would suggest that probably she did.

Mary

 

[Raccoon1010]

I have been reading some stuff on this board, and I don't mean some things, I mean some stuff.(!)

I just want to know, please indulge me, what everyone's definition of Christian is?

Chris·tian
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective
adjective: Christian

1. relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings.
   "the Christian Church"

noun
noun: Christian; plural noun: Christians
a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.
"a born-again Christian"

 

[Brakelite]

seems to me that surrender kind of involves respecting others’ feelings, while not allowing our own to have to large a portion in our thinking, maybe?

I see it as somewhat deeper than that. We surrender those things in our lives, the hidden psyche, the deeper mind we fear and are perhaps ashamed of being the root of evil in ourselves, and asking God to reveal it submitting it into His care in order to heal and restore it according to His own will and character. This often is painful and humiliating.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Ok...so, the point I was wanting to make is that from the reading of that passage is that she KNEW that Jesus would perform a miracle. So it is possible that she knew that from birth he could perform miracles. Why did she possibly know this? Is it possible that he performed miracles as a child? I would suggest that probably she did.

OK, now I get it......If Mary knew that Jesus was a child created by God within her, then this was God's son and I assume that she kept a close eye on him to see how different he might have been from his siblings. But since his brothers did not believe in him until after his death, it seems most unlikely that he was born with anything other than the sinless perfection that Adam was created with. His role as Messiah was complimented by the fact that he could perform miracles, as other prophets had done in the past. Jesus was "the prophet like Moses" who was foretold.

If he was able to perform miracles before his anointing as Messiah, why is this not stated? Don't you think his siblings would have twigged that he was special if he'd been able to perform tricks growing up?
The things that come readily to mind as far as his mother noticing differences would have been that he never got sick, never cried going through teething or growing pains. He would have been super intelligent from a young age as the teachers at the Temple found out when he went missing for three days after the festival in Jerusalem. He was perfect in mind body and spirit, and he possessed free will just like Adam......so yes, different from his siblings....but not a miracle worker before his baptism, and not God in the flesh.

 

[Cooper]

It is "crystal clear" to you perhaps. If it were crystal clear to me and others here, why would we not also embrace the Trinity? Do you not suppose that others, like me, really do want God's truth, whatever it is? I have been searching the scriptures continuously since 1976. I read the Bible and talk with God daily. I strive now to go to that lowest room surrendered everyday allowing Him to elevate as He will...

I have discussed probably every point in the scriptures about the nature of God with people of many different "Christian" beliefs for all of those years including at least 20 years on Christian forums like this one. There really is as Solomon wrote, "nothing new under the sun"!

So no, the Trinity is not crystal clear to everyone!
God is looking at each of our hearts. Who else but God is able to see what is in each heart and therefore able to judge each person fairly?
Not me!
You?

It is all about who Jesus was before he came down from heaven's glory.
,

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

A Christian has God's Spirit(Rom. 8:9), follows Christ's example(Rom. 10:4, Jh. 13:15, 1 Pet. 2:21, Matt. 7:21), and applies Christ's instructions to their lives(Matt. 7:24-25). That's the Bible definition of what makes someone a Christian, and it's the only definition you should trust. All of the "definitions" Orthodox Christianity likes to use such as "accepting Christ as Savior" or "anyone who believes on Christ" is nothing more than empty, worldly platitudes.

 

[amadeus]

so, just for clarification, as a unitarian, are you saying that Jesus is not God??

I am not a Unitarian. I am not saying that about Jesus. I do not support a Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

I am not a Unitarian. I am not saying that about Jesus. I do not support a Trinity.

For the record, I believe in ONE God, who is our ALL IN ALL.

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 1 Corinthians 12:6

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28

Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:23

PRAISE GOD

 

[amadeus]

Well, there are some things we do as Christians that require faith. But then other things are "truth". So, in your opinion, does the belief in or the teaching of the Trinity fall under truth or faith?

John 8:32, 16:13, 17:17

If your division is correct... with regard to the Trinity, I would say for most people, it should be by faith.

However, you have touched on a point I have mentioned on this forum probably many times, but how many people, I wonder, have understood or remembered or agreed with me on it?

I believe that in each "Christian" there is some of both of what you mention, which I would calls ATs [Absolute Truths] and faith. While many may want to draw a definite line between the two, doing this appears to me a major cause for the formation of new church groups or denominations. How many thousands do they say exist now?

God is the only One, I believe, who is definitely able to correctly draw such a line between the ATs and faith of anyone. All of us may have our ATs, but few, if any, of us can correctly separate them.

Do we need to ...?

 

[amadeus]

It is all about who Jesus was before he came down from heaven's glory.
,

If it is, then who among us knows it? Who was an eyewitness with natural eyes? Who is/was an eyewitness with spiritual eyes?

 

[Enoch111]

I am not a Unitarian. I am not saying that about Jesus. I do not support a Trinity.

You are trying to have it both ways, and that does not work. One is either a Trinitarian or A Unitarian. Unitarians reject the deity of Christ, and since He is the second person of the Godhead, they automatically reject the Trinity. So there can be no sitting on the fence in this matter.

 

[Cooper]

If it is, then who among us knows it? Who was an eyewitness with natural eyes? Who is/was an eyewitness with spiritual eyes?

Well, we need to believe the eyewitness accounts, and I have no trouble doing that.

That being so, we soon come into the knowledge through Scripture, and remember the whole Bible, New and Old Testaments was written by Jews, who worshipped the God of the Jews, and here they are writing about Jesus who healed the sick, forgave sin, taught about baptism and is coming again as the Mighty God. How else is the God of creation going to accomplish this, unless He comes to His own in the likeness of man. AND it is the mighty God in the image of man, with whom you and I will be sitting at the lower end of the banqueting table. Speaking personally, I am looking forward to that great day and I know you are too. May God bless.
.

 

[Wrangler]

You are trying to have it both ways, and that does not work. One is either a Trinitarian or A Unitarian. Unitarians reject the deity of Christ, and since He is the second person of the Godhead, they automatically reject the Trinity. So there can be no sitting on the fence in this matter.

The issue is a 4th century man-made construct. The trinity is not in the Bible. The ‘2nd person of the trinity’ is not in Scripture. Jesus did not teach the trinity.

There is no verse in the Bible that states one must believe Jesus is God incarnate in order to be saved. And this thread is about what it means to be a Christian, which is desperately simple to trinitarians inherently contradictory doctrine.

The entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day. It says 1,000’s of times that there is one God, the Father alone - not 3 in one. The 1C is exhibit A of God’s unitarian nature. The Sh’ma is exhibit B. Jesus did not teach us to pray to his Father but our Father - who is in heaven, not Earth as Jesus was.

Jesus said follow me. A Christian is one who follows Christ. Simple.


Moses: 4 Listen, Israel! The Eternal is our True God—He alone.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (The Sh’ma - most important commandment)

 

[amadeus]

You are trying to have it both ways, and that does not work. One is either a Trinitarian or A Unitarian. Unitarians reject the deity of Christ, and since He is the second person of the Godhead, they automatically reject the Trinity. So there can be no sitting on the fence in this matter.

I am following God and His Son, rather than any definitions of men. As I said, I am neither Unitarian nor Trinitarian. What is a label to God? What is a box?
Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Well, we need to believe the eyewitness accounts, and I have no trouble doing that.

That being so, we soon come into the knowledge through Scripture, and remember the whole Bible, New and Old Testaments was written by Jews, who worshipped the God of the Jews, and here they are writing about Jesus who healed the sick, forgave sin, taught about baptism and is coming again as the Mighty God. How else is the God of creation going to accomplish this, unless He comes to His own in the likeness of man. AND it is the mighty God in the image of man, with whom you and I will be sitting at the lower end of the banqueting table. Speaking personally, I am looking forward to that great day and I know you are too. May God bless.
.

Giving God always the glory!

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27