The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you mean in this area, or in all areas?

Much love!

I don’t know. I just know I do not do angry murder, grudging and resentment any more and my passions don’t rule over me and leap up unruly. I love people and have compassion for them, even when they are awful to me because I know they are controlled and not free because I also lived that way and couldn’t fix it either. I appear to be dead to me. I am not aware of any sin inside any more, when before, I saw it in me, it was who I WAS, and I hated my life. It is great relief at first and you just enjoy that He has killed all your enemies in your land. You walk around for days in a bit of a stupor and wonder where YOU are. You think, oh…okay, the peace that passes all understanding…and then you wonder, am I really dead? Will I pop back up again? But…I think dead is dead…? I’d have to go find my notebook to know the day, but it’s been some months. And I seem to have no will any more. Even with things like food. The evening of the day it happened, I thought, oh, I will go get something really good to eat! Then I sat there confused because my desire would not latch onto anything. It didn’t say, hmm…fried chicken! Or…Chinese! Desire, not “will” like I just said. Desire. Before, my own desire always helped me decide what to eat but now it wasn’t there to help me. I sat for a long, long time in stunned silence as to what the heck was going on. I knew I was quite hungry but…there was just a blank as to what I desired to eat. I got up and just grabbed the first thing I saw. Some cheese and crackers. And then I wasn’t hungry any more. It was the strangest thing. And it hasn’t come back. It appears to be dead.
So that’s where I’ve been wandering. Sometimes I wonder…what do I do now….? It’s great peace but I wonder what is next. I don’t know. Can anyone tell me?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Interesting comment. What are the bitter herbs to you, the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant?

Much love!

No. I’m not talking about law for my outside. The kingdom of God is within you. I’m talking about eating the words He gives you but not just the ones that are pleasant to your taste but the ones that are bitter too. The parable again. The sweetness of His mercy forgiving the mans debt. But also the bitter part - that He is severe if you won’t extend that same mercy and forgive others who wrong you/owe you a debt.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Ephesians 4:32 KJV
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Why the difference?

Much love!

I don’t see a difference…

 

[marks]

So that’s where I’ve been wandering. Sometimes I wonder…what do I do now….? It’s great peace but I wonder what is next. I don’t know. Can anyone tell me?

This is an extremely interesting post you've written.

This happened with me some time ago, maybe 2 years. I can tell you the moment it started. It was while reading Psalm 129 late one desparate night, I was so bound in my sin I was going crazy! I loathed myself.

I opened my Bible and read where my eyes landed:

Psalms 129:1-4 KJV
1) A Song of degrees. Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth, may Israel now say:
2) Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth: yet they have not prevailed against me.
3) The plowers plowed upon my back: they made long their furrows.

That was me, and the damage left was immense.

4) The LORD is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked.

When I read the word "cut" I could sense some dark thing inside falling away from me. I wondered, what just happened? Is this real? I'll know soon enough. It was real.

There was love and joy and peace and all the spiritual fruit, and no sign of the flesh. After a few weeks I began to ask, what happened? My first thought, I've been healed, this is the man I'd grow into if I hadn't had all that calamity. But that didn't seem right. Did He give me a gift of faith? Did He just put my flesh to sleep? What?

After another week or two, I began to realize, I can't share this! This is great for me, but I can't pass it along! I want to be able to share this! People I love that were in the same straights as me and I can't help them, because this just happened to me.

Well, not long after that, I remember the exact moment it happened, it ended.

In the time since, I've concluded that this is the life of faith we've been called to, and I've since come to understand that in the realization of the completeness of our reconciliation to God is the faith to life that life.

For myself, I needed that look at the beautiful life, as I was not long afterword going to enter into a massive physiological depression, for about the same length of time. I needed that to hold on to.

God is here with me to empower me if I will trust Him. Not believing that He has removed my sin, well, we all know sin separates us from God. But there is no separation because I am one with Him in Christ, not in myself. Sin is removed and I am made new, and now nothing can ever separate me from my Creator.

And I'm here to say that we can live the life we dream if we will trust Jesus, that His death was all-sufficient for us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don’t see a difference…

In Matthew, Jesus commands that we forgive others on pain of being unforgiven ourselves. You forgive others, and God will forgive you.

In Ephesians (I think this is also in Colossians) we are told to forgive because we have been forgiven. It's backwards.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. I’m not talking about law for my outside. The kingdom of God is within you. I’m talking about eating the words He gives you but not just the ones that are pleasant to your taste but the ones that are bitter too. The parable again. The sweetness of His mercy forgiving the mans debt. But also the bitter part - that He is severe if you won’t extend that same mercy and forgive others who wrong you/owe you a debt.

But you are describing a law.

Let me put it this way. If to you eating the bitter herbs means knowing you must forgive to be forgiven, that forgiveness you seek is based on your completion of the required works. That would be bitter!

It's the Law. Not grace.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is an extremely interesting post you've written.

This happened with me some time ago, maybe 2 years. I can tell you the moment it started. It was while reading Psalm 129 late one desparate night, I was so bound in my sin I was going crazy! I loathed myself.

I opened my Bible and read where my eyes landed:

Psalms 129:1-4 KJV
1) A Song of degrees. Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth, may Israel now say:
2) Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth: yet they have not prevailed against me.
3) The plowers plowed upon my back: they made long their furrows.

That was me, and the damage left was immense.

4) The LORD is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked.

When I read the word "cut" I could sense some dark thing inside falling away from me. I wondered, what just happened? Is this real? I'll know soon enough. It was real.

There was love and joy and peace and all the spiritual fruit, and no sign of the flesh. After a few weeks I began to ask, what happened? My first thought, I've been healed, this is the man I'd grow into if I hadn't had all that calamity. But that didn't seem right. Did He give me a gift of faith? Did He just put my flesh to sleep? What?

After another week or two, I began to realize, I can't share this! This is great for me, but I can't pass it along! I want to be able to share this! People I love that were in the same straights as me and I can't help them, because this just happened to me.

Well, not long after that, I remember the exact moment it happened, it ended.

In the time since, I've concluded that this is the life of faith we've been called to, and I've since come to understand that in the realization of the completeness of our reconciliation to God is the faith to life that life.

For myself, I needed that look at the beautiful life, as I was not long afterword going to enter into a massive physiological depression, for about the same length of time. I needed that to hold on to.

God is here with me to empower me if I will trust Him. Not believing that He has removed my sin, well, we all know sin separates us from God. But there is no separation because I am one with Him in Christ, not in myself. Sin is removed and I am made new, and now nothing can ever separate me from my Creator.

And I'm here to say that we can live the life we dream if we will trust Jesus, that His death was all-sufficient for us.

Much love!

wow. :)
What is physiological depression?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In Matthew, Jesus commands that we forgive others on pain of being unforgiven ourselves. You forgive others, and God will forgive you.

In Ephesians (I think this is also in Colossians) we are told to forgive because we have been forgiven. It's backwards.

Much love!

oh. He has forgiven you though and continues to forgive unless you don’t extend the same mercy to others.
So I still don’t see a difference.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But you are describing a law.

Let me put it this way. If to you eating the bitter herbs means knowing you must forgive to be forgiven, that forgiveness you seek is based on your completion of the required works. That would be bitter!

It's the Law. Not grace.

Much love!

I don’t see it that way…I see it as if you are given much, more will be required.
I think you might be…trying to fit it into a bent up theological framework?
It’s not necessary.

 

[marks]

wow. :)
What is physiological depression?

clinical or chemical depression, also called major depression. Depression caused by chemical imbalance in the brain. It's not about an emotional state, but it produces one. The brain chemistry becomes insufficient to maintain mental or emotional homeostasis. I spent weeks wishing I'd just die. And other horrors.

It's been quite the ride. But He really is continuing to cut those bonds, but now by the exercise of my faith, and not just the passive recipient of the miraculous.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don’t see it that way…I see it as if you are given much, more will be required.
I think you might be…trying to fit it into a bent up theological framework?
It’s not necessary.

I'm just taking the verses as I find them, and letting them speak for themselves.

Much is required when much is given, but that doesn't supercede Jesus' Christ's work on the cross. We are not before Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

oh. He has forgiven you though and continues to forgive unless you don’t extend the same mercy to others.
So I still don’t see a difference.

So then you see your acceptance by God as dependant on your behavior. Not dependant on reconciliation worked by Christ on the cross.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm just taking the verses as I find them, and letting them speak for themselves.

Much is required when much is given, but that doesn't supercede Jesus' Christ's work on the cross. We are not before Him.

Much love!

Okay, well, work on it if it still doesn’t make sense to you.

 

[marks]

Okay, well, work on it if it still doesn’t make sense to you.

?

 

[marks]

The upward call of God in Christ, not threats of hell if you don't conform.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So then you see your acceptance by God as dependant on your behavior. Not dependant on reconciliation worked by Christ on the cross.

Much love!

Yep. You sure are definitely insisting it must fit into the theological framework men gave you.
God accepts men when they do the right thing.
Clinging to Him is the right thing to do. Babies cling to their mother and wrap their legs around her body.

If a nine year old still wants his mother to carry him that way, she won’t. She insists he walk. When he’s capable of more, more is expected.

If you just trust God and continue to trust Him, He will grow you. You don’t have to reject anything just because it feels like it doesn’t fit into the theological construct a man taught you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The upward call of God in Christ, not threats of hell if you don't conform.

And there’s that mercy thing again. Christianity threatens unbelievers with hell if they don’t conform when they have no idea if the man does even more righteously and more often than them by the law written on his heart. But they condemn unbelievers even while they worry about money, proving even they are unbelieving even WHILE condemning the unbelieving. It’s messed up. Too much leaven has messed it up and makes men condemn themselves.

 

[marks]

God accepts men when they do the right thing.

All sin. All are dead in sin. Or do you think differently?

Not that I listen to metal music anymore, Barren Cross has a pretty good song, "Take the Book of Life, He said, I don't allow the living dead!"

Much love!

 

[marks]

And there’s that mercy thing again. Christianity threatens unbelievers with hell if they don’t conform when they have no idea if the man does even more righteously and more often than them by the law written on his heart. But they condemn unbelievers even while they worry about money, proving even they are unbelieving even WHILE condemning the unbelieving. It’s messed up. Too much leaven has messed it up and makes men condemn themselves.

The law in the heart condemns. Everyone knows they do what is wrong.

Even the grammar there in Romans 2, it's accusing others while excusing themselves. This is not an alternate pathway to unity with God, and eternal life.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

All sin. All are dead in sin. Or do you think differently?

That’s no reason to judge unbelievers and thereby harm yourself.