The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

[Taken]

The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.
OP^

I can’t speak to Calvinism or Arminianism don’t study or read about that stuff.

About “saints”, that is what a man is call to become.
In basic elementary terms, like Jesus saying, Hey You, wanna come join WITH me, if you do, I will appoint a “title” unto you, which denotes you ARE with me.

It’s like a “membership identification”, and what ya do, is as “members” all help each other. Talk about me (Jesus), Talk about my father (God), Talk about Gods power (Christ), help each other to learn, and lend helping hands to each other....comfort each other when is sorrowful, sad, mourning, sick, etc.
Talk to me (Jesus) about your fellow “saints”, ie. pray for them to me (JESUS), of your concerns, empathy, and you’re hurting because they are hurting...in some aspect of their life. I’ll (Jesus) see what I (Jesus) can do, for them.

Faithful - (in brief) I see as; a person who has heard, listened, receives measures of Gods gift of faith, believes, continues listening, increasing in Gods Gift of faith...experiences blessing from God...recognizes the increased joy in their life and a heartfelt feeling, that they have the urge to shout out to the Lord, Amen, Most assuredly, I want to join and be WITH YOU (Jesus)....and YOUR Father....THEN...comes the Lord WORKS of Conversion...which is WHEN,
I believe...that individual Becomes.....FAITH-FULL...ie FULL OF Gods Gift of FAITH, (without measure of a little bit, little bit) ....but FULL....Faithful...a saint...and brothers with every other member (saints), a-joined together.

I do not believe, living men are taught or instructed to communicate with or pray “to”; “souls or spirits” of “saints in heaven”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

That also delineates between the one who serves God and the one who doesn't. The servant of the LORD is the saint.

Then there is the failed saint category...the filthy...who serve themselves while claiming to follow Christ. These hold the truth but in unrighteousness. Judas is an example. These go unwashed and stain everything with their fleshly ways and thinking. Yet, if they would humble themselves and not be presumptuous...they would not suffer the severe judgment about to come upon them.

 

[Episkopos]

Do not mere Believers also serve the Lord? I would think they do.

In that case, everyone serves God. God can make good come about from evil. But the righteous are aware of their responsibilities in this life. God doesn't entrust holy things to people who walk in their own strength.
There is a further distinction to be made between being LED by the Spirit and walking IN the Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do not mere Believers also serve the Lord? I would think they do.

I know I often FEEL like I should be doing something FOR Him...I've learned to kind of disregard that thought that I must do something for Him because it doesn't lead anywhere good but rather leads to some sort of pride in me. I am so poor I don't really know I could do anything but take from Him. I guess I think anything I do is...oh I should shut up, I don't know.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You remembered correctly, but those who come from a Partial-Preterist eschatological background interpret the Millennial Reign as the Church age which we are in now, where Christ rules in the hearts of both Saints and Believers. Me, I got enough to do in the here and now; eschatology has to stay on the back burner.

"I don't preach much on the Second Coming. I'm too busy telling people about the first one." - Attributed to Billy Graham. I wish I could confirm this quote; it's pretty good.

And that's okay. You can't focus on everything at once. But Episkopos gave very good answer to my question.I have some issues with wanting to not accept that the outer darkness goes on forever. It makes me terrified for whoever goes there.

 

[David H.]

Do not mere Believers also serve the Lord? I would think they do.

The servant of the LORD is a way of saying those who were chosen to serve Him in the OT. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, etc. All believers are called to this, few are chosen by God. Just like all believers are on the road to holiness, not all finish the race as Paul spoke of. Agape love is the end of the journey of a saint, Just like Christ who out of love for us ended up on the cross to redeem sinners and enemies.

2 Peter 1:5-9

 

[Eternally Grateful]

if I may, not to be rude.

but these two sides teach different gospels.

While yes. there are many doctrinal differences. The salvation issue comes first and foremost. And because of this, they can never truly come together.

 

[Lambano]

And that's okay. You can't focus on everything at once. But Episkopos gave very good answer to my question.I have some issues with wanting to not accept that the outer darkness goes on forever. It makes me terrified for whoever goes there.

I know I often FEEL like I should be doing something FOR Him...I've learned to kind of disregard that thought that I must do something for Him because it doesn't lead anywhere good but rather leads to some sort of pride in me. I am so poor I don't really know I could do anything but take from Him. I guess I think anything I do is...oh I should shut up, I don't know.

Y'know, there I times I wish I could give somebody a hug...

 

[David H.]

I know I often FEEL like I should be doing something FOR Him...I've learned to kind of disregard that thought that I must do something for Him because it doesn't lead anywhere good but rather leads to some sort of pride in me. I am so poor I don't really know I could do anything but take from Him. I guess I think anything I do is...oh I should shut up, I don't know.

Keep going, you are on the right track here.... what you are describing is the difference between doing the will of man and the will of God. the will of man is what many churches are built upon, and they puff up and place man on the pedestal of pride, a true servant of the LORD is doing the will of God, giving glory to God and not to man or the institutions of men.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Keep going, you are on the right track here.... what you are describing is the difference between doing the will of man and the will of God. the will of man is what many churches are built upon, and they puff up and place man on the pedestal of pride, a true servant of the LORD is doing the will of God, giving glory to God and not to man or the institutions of men.

Excellent!
I didn't understand the agape love part though :)

 

[David H.]

if I may, not to be rude.

but these two sides teach different gospels.

While yes. there are many doctrinal differences. The salvation issue comes first and foremost. And because of this, they can never truly come together.

As it sits right now this is true, But with rightly delineating between the faithful and the saints this would resolve itself.

 

[Lambano]

And that's okay. You can't focus on everything at once. But Episkopos gave very good answer to my question.I have some issues with wanting to not accept that the outer darkness goes on forever. It makes me terrified for whoever goes there.

I think I understand. I believed in Christ because preacher-man said God would burn me in fire forever if I didn't. That made an impression on that 12-year-old boy that would last over 20 years.

 

[David H.]

Excellent!
I didn't understand the agape love part though :)

Agape love is the final step of our sanctification as per the lit in 2 Peter 1:5-9. They are the ones who take up the cross and follow Christ, Just as Christ laid down his life for us saints do the same for others as a testimony of the work of the Holy Spirit in them.

 

[Lambano]

I know I often FEEL like I should be doing something FOR Him...I've learned to kind of disregard that thought that I must do something for Him because it doesn't lead anywhere good but rather leads to some sort of pride in me. I am so poor I don't really know I could do anything but take from Him. I guess I think anything I do is...oh I should shut up, I don't know.

You are currently engaged in what John Wesley called "holy conversation" which is one of the Means of Grace. You ARE doing something for Him right now. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think I understand. I believed in Christ because preacher-man said God would burn me in fire forever if I didn't. That made an impression on that 12-year-old boy that would last over 20 years.

It's wise to fear God, but...it's not fear that brought me to Him. It was desperation. I saw how insufficient it all was and I had the thought, if what I see is all there is, then the men who commit suicide are the wisest among us.

 

[Lambano]

Agape love is the final step of our sanctification as per the lit in 2 Peter 1:5-9. They are the ones who take up the cross and follow Christ, Just as Christ laid down his life for us saints do the same for others as a testimony of the work of the Holy Spirit in them.

May I gently disagree? Practicing Agape love is an ongoing part of our sanctification process, not the final step.

A new commandment I give you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.
-John 13:34-35.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Agape love is the final step of our sanctification as per the lit in 2 Peter 1:5-9. They are the ones who take up the cross and follow Christ, Just as Christ laid down his life for us saints do the same for others as a testimony of the work of the Holy Spirit in them.

So...you mean like...no, I'm still confused. Does agape love mean love for others?

 

[Lambano]

It's wise to fear God, but...it's not fear that brought me to Him. It was desperation. I saw how insufficient it all was and I had the thought, if what I see is all there is, then the men who commit suicide are the wisest among us.

That's a pretty good testimony right there.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I see I wasn't the only one confused over that one sentence

 

[Lambano]

So...you mean like...no, I'm still confused. Does agape love mean love for others?

One source defined ἀγαπάω (agapao, to love, the verb cognate of Agape) as when the beloved one's happiness and well-being is essential to that of the one loving. I love that definition of love.

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.