Secure Eternal Salvation

[robert derrick]

And so the OSASer can never know if they are really saved. For there is always tomorrow to reveal that they haven't really believed all along. And so the doctrine of OSAS that is supposed to be the doctrine of sureness and security isn't that at all. They won't know if they've endured to the very end until they get to the very end. Meanwhile, the anti-OSASer is saved all the while he is enduring.

Good point.

However, do you think any of them still believing they are saved, would ever think they could actually be one of the doggy pigs fooling themselves and everyone else?

After all, since the kingdom of OSAS has no such thing of falling from grace by a really real believer, then even if they do a little dog and pig show from time to time, they still wouldn't be one of the really real dogs and pigs who only 'look like' Christians from time to time.

But then, isn't that exactly the description of OSAS wallowing in a little vomit and mire from time to time?

How does any of them know the difference between the dog and pig looking like a Christian from time to time, or a Christian acting like a dog and pig from time to time?

I suppose that judgment is best be left up to the OSAS kingdom masters.

After all, they certainly know a dog and pig when they see one. Just never in the mirror.

 

[robert derrick]

Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 1:31
4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love - Ephesians 1:4
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” - Mark 1:15
20And Isaiah boldly says: “I was found by those who did not seek Me; I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me.”
The faith I have, I can't lose. It has never had anything to do with my effort. Like I said, I don't know about the next guy...

Amen brother. You've certainly got keeping the faith down pat.

No effort at all. Just a breeze for life.

And to a degree, I agree. We know we have it, when we have it:

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

In the end, so long as we keep and grow in the faith and keep ourselves from the sins of the world, then we have no fear of falling.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Faith, love, keeping commandments, obeying the Son: that is eternal salvation without fear of falling.

And so, rather than a Scriptureless 'unconditional and eternally secure salvation', Scripture would call it believing, loving, and obedient eternal salvation without fear of falling.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But you will call the former saved a dog and a pig at the drop of the hat. I suppose it beats grieving over a lost brother or sister of many years. Which I do. I remember their brotherhood without having to call them a pig and dog that was never saved.

YOu need serious help! Twisting my words and lying seem to be your MO. As you said- I will move on. Have the last post as you wish. I won't waste your "precious time" anymore.

 

[Truman]

I don't have anything down pat...He just refuses to let go of me.
I've read the scriptures for decades...it's in my heart.
I don't read like I used to and I don't think like I used to...I have a brain injury. But what I speak comes from my heart. I know it's true. But even before I was sure...in hindsight, I see that He's always been with me.
My first memory was of when He created my spirit. It was before I was in the womb. He knew me then...I've always been His. Maybe it's because I'm a Levite...I don't know.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This deceptive post is nothing but sa smokescreen to cover up your previous blunder that I pointed out in my last post.

As I stated before - my SOLE purpose for presenting Matt. 7:21 was to counter YOUR false usage of Rom. 10:9 as some kind of "proof text" for the man-made fallacy of OSAS. You made the mistake of absolutizing Rom, 10:9 as a "one-size-fits-all" verse - when Matt. 7:21 clearly shows that it isn't.

And once again by excluding the rest of the thought you falsely use this verse to reach a false conclusion.

Well pray tell, who does Roman 10:9 exclude if it is not a one size fits all?

And your cunning deception of excluding the rest of the passage of Matt. 7, just shows you are a mishandler of the word of God.

Once again for all to see:

1 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people in verse 21 are people Jesus NEVER knew! Not people He knew once but didn't know them anymore! Stop being so deceptive with Gods Word!

First of all - EVERY ONE of our sins is forgiven when we come to Christ in Baptism (Acts 2:38). HOWEVER - this does NOT mean that we won't sin again. ONLY those sins for which we have repented are forgiven. This fallacy that all of our future sins are "automatically" forgiven is an unbiblical fairy tale.

So then you conclude when Jesus died on the cross, He did not pay for all your sins. OK then!

And as I never said we would not sin again- you have added another untruth to the growing list of sin you have committed in your false presumptions.

Hmmmmm - now you've added LYING to your Scriptural perversions . . .

I never said that Epignosis = Salvation. I didn't even imply that.
I showed you a list of definitions from Protestant scholars - who basically stated that Epignosis = FAITH.

So when you cited these "rotestant scholars" you were just throwing stuff into this and not believe it? So do you believe epignosis equals salvation or weerew you just citring these for no specific point in this argument?

BOTH Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-21, are talking about truly converted, born again believers in Christ - and the danger of falling BACK into darkness and LOSING their security. This disproved OSAS as a man-made fallacy.

As I showed you you are wrong. For these to be true you have to add clauses to Scripture that do not appear in Gods Word.

Like "He who has begun a good work in you SHALL perform it until that day" That is Gods Word, then Bread of life puts His own little caveat there :"As long as you don't sin too much" r whatever vomit from Lucifer you add to preach one can lose their salvation.

Colossians 3:3-4
King James Version

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Then you add; "so long as you tow the line of the doctrine Romanism made up to keep you in bondage!

inally - our future or "potential" sins are NOT forgiven if we do not repent of them.

This just shows your ignorance of the rudiments of the greek. Repentance is a one time thing that makes us a new creature in christ and a son of God! Confession, is what we do on a daily basis if we sin . I am sure glad the god and Creator and Savior of my soul is far more merciful than you!

Like Jesus said:

Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

The greatest sadness in our disagreement is that you do not know the monumental change that takes place in a persons life when they trust Christ death and resurrection to save them. It is an eternal change that has eternal consequences.

Like the Pharisees of old, you have allowed Romanistic teaching to poison your view of the mercy and depth of Love God has for you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No thing can ever disprove OSAS.

And truly, why would any saved person insist on such a thing is possible?

Eternal salvation, eternal life? Nah, not true! And we can prove it!

I already did or, rather, the BIBLE did - several times, by the way (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Unfortunately, man-made perversions of God's Word spread like poison and stick like glue to many . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

And once again by excluding the rest of the thought you falsely use this verse to reach a false conclusion.

Well pray tell, who does Roman 10:9 exclude if it is not a one size fits all?

And your cunning deception of excluding the rest of the passage of Matt. 7, just shows you are a mishandler of the word of God.

Once again for all to see:

1 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people in verse 21 are people Jesus NEVER knew! Not people He knew once but didn't know them anymore! Stop being so deceptive with Gods Word!
I don't know where you learned to discuss or debate Scripture - nut it's totally inept.

As I have repeatedly stated - my use of Matt. 7:21 is NOT an argument against what it means to be a "true" Christian. That is simply a diversion that YOU are using to avoid the truth of the text/

It was used to show the CONTEXT of Rom. 10:9 which YOU used in a failed effort to support the unbiblical teaching of OSAS. Matt. 7:21 proves that simply professing belief in Christ does NOT guarantee your eternal security.

So then you conclude when Jesus died on the cross, He did not pay for all your sins. OK then!

And as I never said we would not sin again- you have added another untruth to the growing list of sin you have committed in your false presumptions.

No - YOUR fallacy that the Bible teaches that our future sins are "automatically" forgiven WITHOUT repenting of them is yet another one of your man-made perversions.

James admonishes his born-again readers to CONFESS YOUR SINS (James 5:16).

John tells his congregation:
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The Bible does NOT teach your falsehood.

So when you cited these "rotestant scholars" you were just throwing stuff into this and not believe it? So do you believe epignosis equals salvation or weerew you just citring these for no specific point in this argument?

First of all - YOU are a dishonest person because this was already addressed.

I NEVER said that Epignosis = Salvation.
The Protestant scholars I cited NEVER said that Epignosis = Salvation.
The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25 states explicitly that:
Epignosis =Christian faith

Ergo, if Epignosis is synonymous with Christian faith - then
Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 both DISPROVE OSAS.

As I showed you you are wrong. For these to be true you have to add clauses to Scripture that do not appear in Gods Word.

Like "He who has begun a good work in you SHALL perform it until that day" That is Gods Word, then Bread of life puts His own little caveat there :"As long as you don't sin too much" r whatever vomit from Lucifer you add to preach one can lose their salvation.

Colossians 3:3-4
King James Version

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Then you add; "so long as you tow the line of the doctrine Romanism made up to keep you in bondage!



This just shows your ignorance of the rudiments of the greek. Repentance is a one time thing that makes us a new creature in christ and a son of God! Confession, is what we do on a daily basis if we sin . I am sure glad the god and Creator and Savior of my soul is far more merciful than you!

Like Jesus said:

Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

The greatest sadness in our disagreement is that you do not know the monumental change that takes place in a persons life when they trust Christ death and resurrection to save them. It is an eternal change that has eternal consequences.

Like the Pharisees of old, you have allowed Romanistic teaching to poison your view of the mercy and depth of Love God has for you.

No - the greatest tragedy here is that YOU actually believe that you can go around sinning WITHOUT repenting and STILL think you're forgiven.

That is the perversion of perversions . . .

 

[Enoch111]

I already did or, rather, the BIBLE did - several times, by the way (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Let's take a look at one of these passages in its context: John 15:1-6 -- verse 6 would apply to those who profess Christ but are not really abiding "in Christ" and therefore unfruitful.

 

[Enoch111]

this is nothing but another smokescreen to avoid the evidence I have presented that disproves OSAS.

Well a lot of those passages would apply to those who profess to be Christians, but are really not saved and born again.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think you should continue to believe you are not truly saved.

Oh, you are very wrong. I am truly saved.
I am truly saved because I am holding firmly to the word:

"...you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:2​

I'm not saved because I endured to the end. That's ridiculous, because the end hasn't come yet for me to know that. I am presently saved because I am presently believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

However, do you think any of them still believing they are saved, would ever think they could actually be one of the doggy pigs fooling themselves and everyone else?

No, lol.
I haven't met one yet.

Don't forget, though. That is the old OSAS theology. The new OSAS theology says you do not have to keep believing to be saved when Jesus comes back. It says you can go back to unbelief and you are still saved.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Them that reject obedience to the faith as necessary with salvation, say that such things are heartless and false doctrine.

I.e. how can being obedient to the Author of eternal salvation be heartless and heretical?

The same people even go so far as to say we are still saved, even when we don't believe anymore.

They are idolizing a Goddess of Grace. A Mother that would never say no. Sort of like the Virgin Mary.

Perhaps you misunderstand me sir, maybe I complicated my answer. There is no such a thing as secure eternal salvation. All salvation is conditional. In order to be saved on has to do the will of God. Mat 7:21-23. That includes doing things Jehovah's way.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is no such a thing as secure eternal salvation.

I am eternally secure...as long as I keep believing.

As long as I keep believing/trusting in Christ I possess a salvation that will never end.

 

[robert derrick]

Oh, you are very wrong. I am truly saved.
I am truly saved because I am holding firmly to the word:

"...you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:2​

I'm not saved because I endured to the end. That's ridiculous, because the end hasn't come yet for me to know that. I am presently saved because I am presently believing.

I'm not saved because I endured to the end. That's ridiculous, because the end hasn't come yet for me to know that.

Brother, you have to face facts, that trying to deal with some people, it only gets us a blot.

They are not serious people, but just children playing games where they ought not be.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Which Scripture here just happens to be the immediate follow up to obeying Christ for eternal salvation.

OSAS leaders are eternally insecure babies at best, and fallen dead branches at worst, while yet presuming to speak for the True Vine.

 

[robert derrick]

What?

Of Course God does that! He condemns one murderer to the lake of fire, and another murderer He welcomes with loving open arms.

I really wonder how it is that people have taken this phrase that "God is not a respector of persons", and applied it to God like a steel trap that says there is no circumstance where God can treat one person differently from another . . . As We The Observers Judge His Action.

God overlooked the sins of generations man for centuries upon centuries. Sin was in the world before the Law, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. And God is not a respector of persons.

How many slavers, and murderers, and all the rest, have been forgiven their sins by God?

Jesus said to the man laid on a bed before Him, Your sins are forgiven. Did He say that to anyone else standing there? He's not a respector of persons.

"What you do for one you HAVE TO do for all!" Is that our demand? And that it fit our viewpoint? I mean, there can't be considerations we can't see, right?

Much love!

Of Course God does that! He condemns one murderer to the lake of fire, and another murderer He welcomes with loving open arms. I really wonder how it is that people have taken this phrase that "God is not a respector of persons", and applied it to God like a steel trap

Because Scripture is a steel trap for all false doctrine, taking the crafty in their own craftiness.

And pushing to keep false doctrine always leads to some of the most inexplicable statements.

When was the last murderer God welcomed with open arms?? Cain? Joab? Judas?

The obvious context was of unrepented sin. God does not judge the sin of the unbeliever, while excusing the sin of the believer. And the believer is judged more guilty for sinning against knowledge, which is the similitude of Adam's transgression: known sin, unconfessed, unrepented.

Normally, one would wonder how the simple point was missed, but in defending OSAS it is obviously for convenience.

God does not welcome murderers with open arms, for we know no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

God welcomes them that repent by His faith with open arms, which is no more a murderer, their, fornicator, nor idolater, but a forgiven saint in Christ Jesus, whether a newborn babe in Christ or a grown Christian found in transgression.

When confession and repentance ceases, then all such sin is unto death (1 John 5:16), whether never having been a branch or having become a fallen branch.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

To them that know obedience to the faith is necessary for eternal salvation by the faith, this Scripture is a simply warning against turning back to disobedience of the old man.

To OSAS, the Scripture is some steel trap, that must mean something other than what it says: anyone, whether unbeliever or believer, who yields themselves to sin unto death, then they have no eternal life abiding in them.

God is not a respecter of persons. He is not mocked by His own, but will judge every person according to the works.(Gal 6:7)(Rev 20:12-13)

 

[robert derrick]

Salvation is granted by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the full payment of all ones sins. PERIOD! To say that teh omniscient God would save someone only to take away their salvation is blaspemy against the death of Jesus!

It also says that Jesus did not pay the penalty for all of a believers sins. Just most of of them or some of them if one wishes to believ eth e lie that slavation can be lost!

At the moment of salvation one dies to self and is raised to newness of life. Dead men do not affect our salvation.

This is what passes for 47 years of teaching OSAS? Really? A scriptureless concoction of carnal minded thinking.

Salvation is granted by believing in the death,

Salvation is not 'granted', but is obtained, and we are granted help in time of need to overcome temptation to sin, that we may obtain:

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man.

Them that overcome unto the end will be granted to sit with Jesus on His throne, because they have obtained salvation and resurrection unto life. (Rev 3:21)

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not become the Author of eternal salvation, until after He obeyed unto the end, and thus obtained eternal redemption for us, to recieve after we have believed and obeyed Him to the end likewise.

He was not born the Author, but became the Author. He was born into the world by God with promise to become the Author, if the Son obeyed the Father's commandment to lay down His life at the cross. In the garden Jesus learned obedience for the only time in eternity: to obey the commandment of God by faith, though He did not feel like it in the flesh.

We are not born having salvation eternally secured for us, without the same condition as the Author: to keep the commandment by faith unto the end:

And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Salvation in this world is deliverance from the power of sin, that we may run the race set before us to to obtain the prize of enteral life at the end. Only them that run lawfully will finish their course in Christ.

Salvation is deliverance with a promise: we are delivered, that we may obtain the promise. The deliverance is from sins, and the promise is resurrection unto life.

Salvation is not deliverance from our responsibility for our sins. Grace does not excuse sin.

We are counted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead by grace through continuing in well doing and abstaining from youthful lusts.

And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Obtaining is to hit the mark and to gain the prize. The prize is not granted, until the arrow reaches the target and hits the right mark, therefore we press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, which is to win Christ.

Salvation in this life is the deliverance by grace to obtain it in the world to come. If we do not continue in that salvation, we do not obtain it in the resurrection.

The saved and the redeemed are the arrows of the Lord sent flying to the mark of resurrection unto life, and the arrows are now living souls, with freedom to choose to serve and obey Him and fly lawfully, or to turn from the mark unto the resurrection of death.

Dumb arrows don't win anything, but only arrows that are loosed of the Lord, and then are guided by the Lord willingly.

The delusional OSAS claim is that the people of God by grace become nonresponsible arrows of wood and stone, that have no freedom to choose to serve the Lord or not. They are exempt by 'grace' from choosing this day whom ye will serve.

Like the dumb idols of old, they have made an idol to themselves of unconditionally secured salvation by grace only.

full payment of all ones sins. Jesus did not pay the penalty for all of a believers sins.

The full payment is for all of our sins that are past. It is impossible by Scripture to forgive future sins, which 'future sins not be done at all. And yet, if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father, to confess and then be forgiven of sin.

Future sins cannot become sins that are past, until they are confessed and forgiven to become forgotten in the past.

Jesus never paid for present and future unconfessed sins. PERIOD!

He only needed once to shed His blood, which is an everlasting and incorruptible blood shed forgiveness of sins confessed to Him, not a flood of 'preforgiven' sins to commit in the future: that is the filthy flood out of the mouth of the serpent (Rev 12), that carries away the deceived into a life of sins by grace.

blasphemy against the death of Jesus!

The blasphemy against the death of Jesus is the lie of present and future unconfessed sins already preforgiven, which is a license to continue in present sins and adding more in future, that speaks more of mocking God for pre-forgiven sins, rather than godly sorrow for sinning.

OSAS speaks really great things about eternal conditional security that are blasphemies, because they include preforgiven sins. (Rev 13:5)

to take away their salvation

That which is not 'granted', cannot be 'taken away': it is denied from being obtained, because God's salvation unto resurrection of life is not obtained by unrighteousness of disobedience to His Word.

At the moment of salvation one dies to self and is raised to newness of life. Dead men do not affect our salvation.

Another great thing and blasphemy: the first part true, and the last deceitful.

And the first part is the only thing of Scripture not concocted by a carnal mind, subtil as a serpent who bites in the end.

Dead men that stay dead, don't affect the salvation of God.

And it's not 'our' salvation, but God's, to be obtained by them who keep under their bodies, and bring them into subjection, lest the old man revive and crucifies Christ afresh to an open shame.

Unconditional salvation, however, is their own, even as they say.

Dead men do not affect our salvation.

All these divided sects seem to have their own cute little remarks, that they think seal the deal.

This one sounds like the Acts 2:38 Warriors, that preach salvation only with water baptism: The living aren't buried!.

 

[robert derrick]

Perhaps you misunderstand me sir, maybe I complicated my answer. There is no such a thing as secure eternal salvation. All salvation is conditional. In order to be saved on has to do the will of God. Mat 7:21-23. That includes doing things Jehovah's way.

No sir. I was showing how your post was true, but inserting the bewildering experience on this thread from the OSAS masters, that they could actually argue against obedience to the faith for eternal salvation.

I was not referring to you. From all your posts, you are certainly not a believer only.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It was used to show the CONTEXT of Rom. 10:9 which YOU used in a failed effort to support the unbiblical teaching of OSAS. Matt. 7:21 proves that simply professing belief in Christ does NOT guarantee your eternal security.

Sorry but Romans 10:9 is a verse that promotes OSAS

And you simply cannot rip a verse out of its context and misuse it.

The People sayi8ng LORD LORD are standing before the Lord in judgment while Romans 10 is a person on earth calling to the Lord for salvation. Two different scenarios and two different time frames that cannot be linked!

No - YOUR fallacy that the Bible teaches that our future sins are "automatically" forgiven WITHOUT repenting of them is yet another one of your man-made perversions.

James admonishes his born-again readers to CONFESS YOUR SINS (James 5:16).

John tells his congregation:
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The Bible does NOT teach your falsehood.

Well because you have been fully inculcated in teh apostasy of Romanism you do not understand what many have called, positional and experiential truths.

Positionally we are sealed, glorified, justified, perfect etc.etc.etc. Whehn we trusted Christ as Savior we are saved forever! Only one person can cause us to lose our salvation. His name is "noman".

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

otherwise:

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Colossians 3:2-4
King James Version

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
John 3:36
King James Version

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



Ephesians 2:5-7
King James Version

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Hebrews 10:14
King James Version

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Romans 8:28-39
King James Version

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14
King James Version

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Your biggesat error is that you forget that God deals with His children on a day to day basis as well as an eternal basis.

We are being conformed to teh image of Jesus and Jesus said He will complete that work in us! but none of us are perfect and sin while it does not destroy or harm our relationship with God does hinder and hamper our fellowship with God and these are two different things.

If we live in unconfessed sin- that sin stands in teh way of us enjoying the blessings that are ours. It does not take away sonship- just fellowship.

Rome does not teach this and actually denies this by saying one can sin their way out of salvation.

As the Hebrew passage shows- God has already perfected us forever! Now He is in the process of sanctifying us day by day until we attain in eternity that practical experience of holiness.

this is the truth of positional vs. experiential truth! Yes they are words coined by men, but they are words coined to show the biblicasl truth of how God looks at His children.

God will not look upon our sin- because He sees no sin in us! Why? Because they were all paid for at teh cross. If the cross did not pay for our future sins, there remains no more acceptable sacrifice for those sins and we all are hopeless.

We cannot, are not nor ever will be saved by any work we do. We cannot maintain our salvation by avoiding sin and doing good.

a faithful Christian does not do good works to try to please God, get saved or maintain their salvation (and avoiding sin and confessing sin are good works) A faithful Christian does good works because they are saved, eternally secure, The good works are the result of us being saved as Romans 2 declares!

 

[marks]

God will not look upon our sin- because He sees no sin in us! Why? Because they were all paid for at teh cross. If the cross did not pay for our future sins, there remains no more acceptable sacrifice for those sins and we all are hopeless.

He sees the son or daughter whom He birthed. We are the spirit children of God, spirit born of Spirit, born of God. No one is able to "undo" the facts of their birth.

The one born from Adam shares his Adamic Humanity. The one born from God shares Christ's sonship.

You cannot change having been born from Adam, and being a child of your parents. And you cannot change having been born from God, and being a child of God.

He sees us as He created us, righteous, holy, beloved, accepted, chosen, beloved. Just as He sees Jesus, because as He is, so are we in this world.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Since faith without works is dead, then belief without obedience is dead.

Therefore, eternal salvation is for them that obediently believe Christ.

Them that are not obediently believing Christ, are not believers in Christ.

Therefore, if our obedience is not spread abroad, then our beliefs are dead.

The eternal salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ is known by faithful obedience to Him.

Otherwise, there is no knowing the difference between the tare and the wheat, which is contrary to Scripture:

But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

We know who and what we are, as we grow up, whether to be tares unto sin or to be wheat unto righteousness.

Them who reject obedience to the faith as the full measure of eternal salvation are blind and cannot see afar off, and certainly can never know a tare from a wheat, even when looking in the mirror.

Unconditional eternal security is the most insecure faith there is, because OSAS cannot possibly know if they are saved, because they cannot look at their own lives to judge being worthy of Christ and so win Christ:

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

All they have in the end is a belief they are saved. And since that belief is not accompanied with necessary obedience to Christ, it is a dead belief and covenant with death. (Is 28:15-18)

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them.

As a born again Christian, I know that if my living is not measuring up to the faith and truth of Jesus', to be a doer of the Word and not a hearer only, then it is my responsibility, and mine alone, to repent and obey, not just to believe and sear my conscience with a false hope of obtaining eternal salvation in the resurrection of life:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

OSAS calls this 'pride in works to be saved', which is a wresting of Scripture to one's own destruction.