A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

[JohnPaul]

And what makes this Bible your choice out of all the English translations?

Let me compare the HRB with the NASB for the Greek scriptures, and the Jewish Tanakh for the Hebrew verses....

HRB...Isa 54:5....For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called."

TANAKH....Isa 54:5..."For your Master is your Maker, the Lord [ יְהֹוָ֥ה ] of Hosts is His name, and your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, shall be called the God of all the earth. הכִּ֚י בֹֽעֲלַ֙יִךְ֙ עֹשַׂ֔יִךְ יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת שְׁמ֑וֹ וְגֹֽאֲלֵךְ֙ קְד֣וֹשׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֱלֹהֵ֥י כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ יִקָּרֵֽא:"

HRB...Rom 9:5..."whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Messiah according to flesh, He being YAHWEH over all, blessed forever. Amen."

NASB...."whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen."

HRB...Luk 2:11..."For today is born to you in the city of David, the Savior, who is YAHWEH, the Messiah."

NASB..." for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

HRB...Act 2:36..."Then assuredly, let all the house of Israel acknowledge that YAHWEH made known this same Yahshua whom you crucified, He is both YAHWEH and Messiah."

NASB..."Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

HRB...1Sa 16:6..."And it happened as they came in, that he saw Eliab, and said, Surely before YAHWEH is His Messiah."

TANAKH..."And it was, that when they came, and he saw Eliab, that he said, "Surely, before the Lord is His anointed." ווַיְהִ֣י בְּבוֹאָ֔ם וַיַּ֖רְא אֶת־אֱלִיאָ֑ב וַיֹּ֕אמֶר אַ֛ךְ נֶ֥גֶד יְהֹוָ֖ה :מְשִׁיחֽוֹ"

HRB...Act 10:36..."The Word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the good news of peace through Yahshua Messiah, He is Master YAHWEH of all."

NASB..."The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)"

HRB...Psa 78:35...."And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer."

TANAKH..."And they remembered that God is their rock and the Most High God is their Redeemer. להוַֽיִּזְכְּרוּ כִּֽי־אֱלֹהִ֣ים צוּרָ֑ם וְאֵ֥ל עֶ֜לְי֗וֹן גֹּֽאֲלָֽם:"

HRB...Isa 48:17..."Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."

TANAKH..."So said the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, "I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you for your profit, Who leads you by the way you should go. יזכֹּֽה־אָמַ֧ר יְהֹוָ֛ה גֹּֽאַלְךָ֖ קְד֣וֹשׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל אֲנִ֨י יְהֹוָ֚ה אֱלֹהֶ֙יךָ֙ מְלַמֶּדְךָ֣ לְהוֹעִ֔יל מַדְרִֽיכְךָ֖ בְּדֶ֥רֶךְ תֵּלֵֽךְ:


HRB...Isa 49:26..."And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob."

TANAKH..."And those who taunt you-I will feed their flesh, and as with sweet wine they shall become drunk [from] their blood; and all flesh shall know that I am the Lord Who saves you, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. כווְהַֽאֲכַלְתִּ֚י אֶת־מוֹנַ֙יִךְ֙ אֶת־בְּשָׂרָ֔ם וְכֶֽעָסִ֖יס דָּמָ֣ם יִשְׁכָּר֑וּן וְיָֽדְע֣וּ כָל־בָּשָׂ֗ר כִּ֣י אֲנִ֚י יְהֹוָה֙ מֽוֹשִׁיעֵ֔ךְ וְגֹֽאֲלֵ֖ךְ אֲבִ֥יר יַֽעֲקֹֽב:

HRB...Isa 60:16...Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

TANAKH..."And you shall suck the milk of nations and the breast of kings you shall suck, and you shall know that I am the Lord, your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. טזוְיָֽנַקְתְּ֙ חֲלֵ֣ב גּוֹיִ֔ם וְשֹׁ֥ד מְלָכִ֖ים תִּינָ֑קִי וְיָדַ֗עַתְּ כִּ֣י אֲנִ֚י יְהֹוָה֙ מֽוֹשִׁיעֵ֔ךְ וְגֹֽאֲלֵ֖ךְ אֲבִ֥יר יַֽעֲקֹֽב:"

Am I to focus on the word "Redeemer" here? Are you suggesting that the term can only apply to Jesus? You do understand the role of a redeemer, I hope? Strangely, the word is missing from the Greek verses. I am seeing it only in the Hebrew.....so what are we to assume here with these horribly mistranslated verses in the HRB?

That God is a "Redeemer" because the one who sends his son to pay a debt is also a redeemer. One who send a savior is also a savior.
Titles apply to more than one person.

The title "Lord" applies to both God and his Christ...it is not a title exclusive to God. Sarah called Abraham "Lord". Nobles in England were called Lords. It simply means "Sir" or "Master".

The word "god" in the Bible is not exclusive to Jehovah either.
Jesus himself said that his Father called his judges in Israel "gods" because of the divine authority they were given. (Psalm 82:6)
John 10:33-36...
"The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law: ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be nullified), 36 are you saying of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"

What did Jesus call himself? He had the perfect opportunity to identify himself here if he was God?....they were accusing him of blasphemy anyway....but he identified himself as "the Son of God"......not Yahweh.

Moses also was made "god" to Pharaoh. Jesus is a "god" because he too has divine authority.

Do you guys do no study at all into the words that are used in the scriptures? If you did, you would not be persuaded by bad translations, to jump to so many wrong conclusions.

@Aunty Jane, while I like your post, I believe there is only one God the father and Jesus Christ as his only begotten son, I do not consider Jesus God, but our Lord and Savior and that he is the son of God who was sent to us to wash away the sins of the world and give humanity a chance at redemption.

I never in my lifetime heard of Jesus Christ being called Yahweh, I always associated that with name of God as is Jehova.

 

[Cooper]

HRB...Isa 54:5....For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called."

TANAKH....Isa 54:5..."For your Master is your Maker, the Lord of Hosts is His name, and your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, shall be called the God of all the earth."

The Maker is the Lord of Hosts, the Redeemer is the God of all the earth and Jesus is both. He is the lamb of Revelation 17:14 the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
..

HRB...Rom 9:5..."whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Messiah according to flesh, He being YAHWEH over all, blessed forever. Amen."

NASB...."whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen."

Both say Christ the Messiah is Yahweh God.

..

HRB...Luk 2:11..."For today is born to you in the city of David, the Savior, who is YAHWEH, the Messiah." [?IMG]

NASB..." for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

Both affirm Jesus is Saviour, YAHWEH, Messiah and Christ the Lord.

..

HRB...Act 2:36..."Then assuredly, let all the house of Israel acknowledge that YAHWEH made known this same Yahshua whom you crucified, He is both YAHWEH and Messiah."

NASB..."Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Jesus is Lord and Christ in both of them.

..

HRB...1Sa 16:6..."And it happened as they came in, that he saw Eliab, and said, Surely before YAHWEH is His Messiah."

TANAKH..."And it was, that when they came, and he saw Eliab, that he said, "Surely, before the Lord is His anointedd."

The Messiah is BEFORE yahweh.

..

HRB...Act 10:36..."The Word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the good news of peace through Yahshua Messiah, He is Master YAHWEH of all."

NASB..."The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)"

Jesus Christ is YAHWEH Lord of all.

..

HRB...Psa 78:35...."And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer."

TANAKH..."And they remembered that God is their rock and the Most High God is their Redeemer:"

Jesus is the Rock. Both versions tell us the rock is the Most High God and Redeemer.

..

HRB...Isa 48:17..."Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."

TANAKH..."So said the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, "I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you for your profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

Again, both translations affirm the Redeemer is LORD, the Holy One of Israel, the LORD thy God who leads you in the way you should go.

..

HRB...Isa 49:26..."And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob."

TANAKH..."And those who taunt you-I will feed their flesh, and as with sweet wine they shall become drunk [from] their blood; and all flesh shall know that I am the Lord Who saves you, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

The wicked will have an unsavoury end. Our Saviour (Jesus) and Redeemer is the mighty one of Jacob i.e. YAHWEH.
..

HRB...Isa 60:16...Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

TANAKH..."And you shall suck the milk of nations and the breast of kings you shall suck, and you shall know that I am the Lord, your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

The mighty one of Jacob is our Saviour and redeemer. This is the pre-incarnate Jesus known as Yahweh in the Old Testament.
..

The judges were gods wigth a small g.

..

John 10:33-36...
"The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law: ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom thae word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be nullified), 36 are you saying of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"

Jesus identified himself as God, with a capital G and not the lower case g of the judges.
..

Moses also was made "god" to Pharaoh. Jesus is a "god" because he too has divine authority.

Again, Moses was a god with a small g. As you say, Jesus not only had divine authority, but as the Word, he created the heaven and the earth and therefore was God with a capital G also called Yahweh by the Jews.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You know, Cooper, there is an old saying....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....you are reading into those verses what you want to see....and I understand why. To acknowledge that the Bible you use is basically mistranslated to promote certain erroneous beliefs is a huge admission.....but nowhere in all of scripture is Jesus called Yahweh......not once.

The Maker is the Lord of Hosts, the Redeemer is the God of all the earth and Jesus is both. He is the lamb of Revelation 17:14 the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
..

Have you done any studies in Revelation? If you have then you would know who the Lamb is and where he is. In the visions John was given, he saw the figure of Yahweh seated on a throne because he is the highest personage in the universe. (Psalm 83:18) John also sees the Lamb standing with his God and Father on a heavenly Mount Zion.

Describing the scene John says....
“And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” (Revelation 4:9-11 - ESV)

Colossians 1:17 says...
“Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him.”

The Lord Jesus Christ is not God, but the appointed mediator between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) If Jesus was God, that would make no sense. We would need a mediator between us and him too.
He shares his Father’s throne because he has been appointed King of his Father’s Kingdom. The son is not the Father and the two are “one” in unity and purpose, not in any merging of divine personalities. The Father is always superior to his created Son. (Colossians 1:15)

Both say Christ the Messiah is Yahweh God.

No they do not. The son is “blessed” by his Father. God does not bless himself.

Both affirm Jesus is Saviour, YAHWEH, Messiah and Christ the Lord.

No they do not. Jesus is our Savior, sent by his God and Father for that purpose. God does not send himself, pray to himself, and get murdered by mere mortals. Nowhere in that verse is Yahweh mentioned.

Jesus is Lord and Christ in both of them.

Again Yahweh is not mentioned in this verse. You cannot mess with scripture to alter what it says.
The title “Lord” is not exclusive to God.

The Messiah is BEFORE yahweh.

Does it occur to you that being “before the Lord” can mean being in front of God’s throne, giving him worship?
Revelation 3:12...
“The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. (ESV)
These are the words of Jesus conveying the revelation to John by means of an Angel....
The resurrected Jesus in heaven, calls his Father “my God” four times in that one verse.
Does one part of God worship himself?

Jesus Christ is YAHWEH Lord of all.

You are again seeing what you want to see.....it says nothing of the sort.

Jesus is the Rock. Both versions tell us the rock is the Most High God and Redeemer.

A “rock” is used figuratively in scripture to denote something solid and unmovable.
Yahweh is described as a such a rock, and by his faithful course, Jesus is described as a “rock” too.
When addressing Peter, Jesus said....”...I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of hades will not overpower it.” (Matthew 16:18)
Peter was not the “rock”, Jesus was.

Again, both translations affirm the Redeemer is LORD, the Holy One of Israel, the LORD thy God who leads you in the way you should go.

Yes Yahweh, is “the Holy One of Israel”......not Jesus.

The wicked will have an unsavoury end. Our Saviour (Jesus) and Redeemer is the mighty one of Jacob i.e. YAHWEH.

You are reading into that verse what it does not say. Both God and his Christ are “Redeemers” and “Saviours” by virtue of the fact that the one who sends the Redeemer and the Saviour is such himself. (John 17:3)

The mighty one of Jacob is our Saviour and redeemer. This is the pre-incarnate Jesus known as Yahweh in the Old Testament.

Not so. See above.

The judges were gods wigth a small g.


Jesus identified himself as God, with a capital G and not the lower case g of the judges.

Do you know that the original Koine Greek had neither punctuation nor capitals. When Greek was translated into English, punctuation and capital letters were inserted by the translators, according to their own bias.
Luke 23:43 is a classic example of this. Misplacement of the comma in that verse changes the whole meaning.

Moses also was made "god" to Pharaoh. Jesus is a "god" because he too has divine authority.

Again, Moses was a god with a small g. As you say, Jesus not only had divine authority, but as the Word, he created the heaven and the earth and therefore was God with a capital G also called Yahweh by the Jews.

“Theos” in Greek simply means “god” there were no capitals. Even satan is called “theos”.

So you see Cooper, you choose to believe what scripture does not say. Whoever it is that you have chosen to believe, will be held accountable for the lies they teach.....but all who believe the lies will go down with them. It is a serious business to translate the word of God.
The “deceiver” is good at his job.....too good. Be aware and do your own research. Our lives depend on not falling victim to the devil’s deceptions. (1 John 5:19)

 

[JohnPaul]

You know, Cooper, there is an old saying....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....you are reading into those verses what you want to see....and I understand why. To acknowledge that the Bible you use is basically mistranslated to promote certain erroneous beliefs is a huge admission.....but nowhere in all of scripture is Jesus called Yahweh......not once.


Have you done any studies in Revelation? If you have then you would know who the Lamb is and where he is. In the visions John was given, he saw the figure of Yahweh seated on a throne because he is the highest personage in the universe. (Psalm 83:18) John also sees the Lamb standing with his God and Father on a heavenly Mount Zion.

Describing the scene John says....
“And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” (Revelation 4:9-11 - ESV)

Colossians 1:17 says...
“Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him.”

The Lord Jesus Christ is not God, but the appointed mediator between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) If Jesus was God, that would make no sense. We would need a mediator between us and him too.
He shares his Father’s throne because he has been appointed King of his Father’s Kingdom. The son is not the Father and the two are “one” in unity and purpose, not in any merging of divine personalities. The Father is always superior to his created Son. (Colossians 1:15)


No they do not. The son is “blessed” by his Father. God does not bless himself.


No they do not. Jesus is our Savior, sent by his God and Father for that purpose. God does not send himself, pray to himself, and get murdered by mere mortals. Nowhere in that verse is Yahweh mentioned.


Again Yahweh is not mentioned in this verse. You cannot mess with scripture to alter what it says.
The title “Lord” is not exclusive to God.


Does it occur to you that being “before the Lord” can mean being in front of God’s throne, giving him worship?
Revelation 3:12...
“The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. (ESV)
These are the words of Jesus conveying the revelation to John by means of an Angel....
The resurrected Jesus in heaven, calls his Father “my God” four times in that one verse.
Does one part of God worship himself?


You are again seeing what you want to see.....it says nothing of the sort.


A “rock” is used figuratively in scripture to denote something solid and unmovable.
Yahweh is described as a such a rock, and by his faithful course, Jesus is described as a “rock” too.
When addressing Peter, Jesus said....”...I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of hades will not overpower it.” (Matthew 16:18)
Peter was not the “rock”, Jesus was.



Yes Yahweh, is “the Holy One of Israel”......not Jesus.


You are reading into that verse what it does not say. Both God and his Christ are “Redeemers” and “Saviours” by virtue of the fact that the one who sends the Redeemer and the Saviour is such himself. (John 17:3)


Not so. See above.


Do you know that the original Koine Greek had neither punctuation nor capitals. When Greek was translated into English, punctuation and capital letters were inserted by the translators, according to their own bias.
Luke 23:43 is a classic example of this. Misplacement of the comma in that verse changes the whole meaning.


“Theos” in Greek simply means “god” there were no capitals. Even satan is called “theos”.

So you see Cooper, you choose to believe what scripture does not say. Whoever it is that you have chosen to believe, will be held accountable for the lies they teach.....but all who believe the lies will go down with them. It is a serious business to translate the word of God.
The “deceiver” is good at his job.....too good. Be aware and do your own research. Our lives depend on not falling victim to the devil’s deceptions. (1 John 5:19)

Amen sister, thank you for speaking the truth, may God bless you always.

The adversary deceives, so we must always be alert and only accept the truth, God the father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Cooper]

You know, Cooper, there is an old saying....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....you are reading into those verses what you want to see....and I understand why. To acknowledge that the Bible you use is basically mistranslated to promote certain erroneous beliefs is a huge admission.....but nowhere in all of scripture is Jesus called Yahweh......not once.


Have you done any studies in Revelation? If you have then you would know who the Lamb is and where he is. In the visions John was given, he saw the figure of Yahweh seated on a throne because he is the highest personage in the universe. (Psalm 83:18) John also sees the Lamb standing with his God and Father on a heavenly Mount Zion.

Describing the scene John says....
“And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” (Revelation 4:9-11 - ESV)

Colossians 1:17 says...
“Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him.”

The Lord Jesus Christ is not God, but the appointed mediator between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) If Jesus was God, that would make no sense. We would need a mediator between us and him too.
He shares his Father’s throne because he has been appointed King of his Father’s Kingdom. The son is not the Father and the two are “one” in unity and purpose, not in any merging of divine personalities. The Father is always superior to his created Son. (Colossians 1:15)


No they do not. The son is “blessed” by his Father. God does not bless himself.


No they do not. Jesus is our Savior, sent by his God and Father for that purpose. God does not send himself, pray to himself, and get murdered by mere mortals. Nowhere in that verse is Yahweh mentioned.


Again Yahweh is not mentioned in this verse. You cannot mess with scripture to alter what it says.
The title “Lord” is not exclusive to God.


Does it occur to you that being “before the Lord” can mean being in front of God’s throne, giving him worship?
Revelation 3:12...
“The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. (ESV)
These are the words of Jesus conveying the revelation to John by means of an Angel....
The resurrected Jesus in heaven, calls his Father “my God” four times in that one verse.
Does one part of God worship himself?


You are again seeing what you want to see.....it says nothing of the sort.


A “rock” is used figuratively in scripture to denote something solid and unmovable.
Yahweh is described as a such a rock, and by his faithful course, Jesus is described as a “rock” too.
When addressing Peter, Jesus said....”...I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of hades will not overpower it.” (Matthew 16:18)
Peter was not the “rock”, Jesus was.



Yes Yahweh, is “the Holy One of Israel”......not Jesus.


You are reading into that verse what it does not say. Both God and his Christ are “Redeemers” and “Saviours” by virtue of the fact that the one who sends the Redeemer and the Saviour is such himself. (John 17:3)


Not so. See above.


Do you know that the original Koine Greek had neither punctuation nor capitals. When Greek was translated into English, punctuation and capital letters were inserted by the translators, according to their own bias.
Luke 23:43 is a classic example of this. Misplacement of the comma in that verse changes the whole meaning.


“Theos” in Greek simply means “god” there were no capitals. Even satan is called “theos”.

So you see Cooper, you choose to believe what scripture does not say. Whoever it is that you have chosen to believe, will be held accountable for the lies they teach.....but all who believe the lies will go down with them. It is a serious business to translate the word of God.
The “deceiver” is good at his job.....too good. Be aware and do your own research. Our lives depend on not falling victim to the devil’s deceptions. (1 John 5:19)

Tell me, is the god of one nation the God of the world?
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Tell me, is the god of one nation the God of the world?
.

"The god of this world" is satan the devil ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)...and he has the ability to "blind" people....not their eyes, but their "minds".....but he can only do it with "unbelievers".

Now, you tell me.....were the Jews of Jesus' day who rejected him as Messiah, "believers"? They believed in the same God that Jesus did and they had the same scriptures that he used, but they railed against what Jesus taught because he taught something different to what they did.
Who was right?

Read Matthew 7:21-23 and tell me who Jesus rejects on judgment day......believers or unbelievers?

 

[Cooper]

"The god of this world" is satan the devil ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)...and he has the ability to "blind" people....not their eyes, but their "minds".....but he can only do it with "unbelievers".

Now, you tell me.....were the Jews of Jesus' day who rejected him as Messiah, "believers"? They believed in the same God that Jesus did and they had the same scriptures that he used, but they railed against what Jesus taught because he taught something different to what they did.
Who was right?

Read Matthew 7:21-23 and tell me who Jesus rejects on judgment day......believers or unbelievers?

You ask if the Jews of Jesus' day, who believed in the same god as yourself and rejected Jesus as the pre-existing creator were "believers"? Clearly they did not believe, even though he told them he existed before Abraham. You do not believe that either, do you.

Jesus gave the answer to them, and to unbelievers like you when he said in JOHN 8:43-44
"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

As you rightly say, this is "The god of this world" Satan the devil ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)...he has the ability to "blind" people....not their eyes, but their "minds".....but he can only do it with "unbelievers". (The blind, Satan's minions, being those who believe Jesus was the son of a carpenter and worship the national god.)

You mention Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount tells us that in the last days, many preachers, so-called soul winners and good moral men, including those who label themselves as Christians, will be rejected by Christ, simply because they are devoid of true faith in HIM. Beware of mere lip-devotion which signifies nothing, either here or hereafter. (Summarised Bible)

Ask yourself who Jesus was talking to when he said these things. He was talking to those who did not believe in his deity. A blind person will obviously not see it as you have not.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Satans minions include those who worship the god of one nation. The true God is the God of the whole world.

Who is this "god of one nation"? And how is the God whom Jesus worshipped, "the God of the whole world"?

Jesus' words to the Samaritan woman at the well was the first time that he identified himself as Messiah to anyone.
But their conversation was interesting....
John 4:19-26...
"The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. 25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” 26 Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.”

So here we have Jesus identifying the Jews as the ones who worshipped the true God at that time. He said that the 'Samaritans worshipped what they did not know'. BUT......"nevertheless" he said that the time was coming when no geographical location would be needed to worship God Jehovah.....so with the coming of Jesus as Messiah, things were going to change. And after his death and resurrection, as that century progressed, things for the Jews became increasingly tense.

The Roman armies came in 66CE and laid siege to Jerusalem and it seemed as if there would be no escape for the inhabitants of the city. Jesus had told his disciples to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies...but there was no avenue of escape.....until suddenly, and for no apparent reason, the Romans pulled up stakes and left, allowing the Christians to obey Jesus' commands.
They were to take nothing with them, except a few provisions. They fled to a city called Pella which was fairly neutral towards the Jews, when the Jews were not so friendly with anyone. They waited for four long years, wondering why they had been told to leave with just the clothes on their backs........but then, the Romans came back and laid siege again causing extreme starvation and sickness in the besieged city. Then the Romans completely destroyed the city and its Temple....a Jewish "holocaust" of terrible proportions, confirming what Jesus had said about the Jewish nation in Matthew 23:37-39....and the condition of the Temple in Matthew 24:2.

God only allowed the Temple to be destroyed when his nation had sinned inexcusably and unforgivably. It was a symbol of his abandonment. The Jews have never rebuilt their Temple to this day. The site is fought over by Jews, Muslims and Christians, showing that none of them got the message that Jesus had conveyed to the Samaritan woman....geography no longer mattered.
So God chose a new nation to be his "people". (Acts 15:14) No single nation on earth could claim Jehovah as their God, because people of all nations could now come to Christ and be saved.
Acts 10:34-35...
"At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."

And the truth is, that was God's plan all along...his promise to Abraham was that "all the nations" would be blessed by the seed that Abraham's lineage would produce.

Jesus said that his God was looking for those who would "worship in spirit and truth".....what do you think he meant?

Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 7:21-23 tells us in the last days, many preachers, so-called soul winners and good moral men, including those who label themselves as Christians, will be rejected by Christ, simply because they are devoid of true faith in HIM who alone is the foundation of salvation. Beware of mere lip-devotion which signifies nothing, either here or hereafter. (Summarised Bible)

Is that an actual Bible translation? That is really taking liberties with the text...

 

[Cooper]

Who is this "god of one nation"? And how is the God whom Jesus worshipped, "the God of the whole world"?

Jesus' words to the Samaritan woman at the well was the first time that he identified himself as Messiah to anyone.
But their conversation was interesting....
John 4:19-26...
"The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. 25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” 26 Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.”

So here we have Jesus identifying the Jews as the ones who worshipped the true God at that time. He said that the 'Samaritans worshipped what they did not know'. BUT......"nevertheless" he said that the time was coming when no geographical location would be needed to worship God Jehovah.....so with the coming of Jesus as Messiah, things were going to change. And after his death and resurrection, as that century progressed, things for the Jews became increasingly tense.

The Roman armies came in 66CE and laid siege to Jerusalem and it seemed as if there would be no escape for the inhabitants of the city. Jesus had told his disciples to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies...but there was no avenue of escape.....until suddenly, and for no apparent reason, the Romans pulled up stakes and left, allowing the Christians to obey Jesus' commands.
They were to take nothing with them, except a few provisions. They fled to a city called Pella which was fairly neutral towards the Jews, when the Jews were not so friendly with anyone. They waited for four long years, wondering why they had been told to leave with just the clothes on their backs........but then, the Romans came back and laid siege again causing extreme starvation and sickness in the besieged city. Then the Romans completely destroyed the city and its Temple....a Jewish "holocaust" of terrible proportions, confirming what Jesus had said about the Jewish nation in Matthew 23:37-39....and the condition of the Temple in Matthew 24:2.

God only allowed the Temple to be destroyed when his nation had sinned inexcusably and unforgivably. It was a symbol of his abandonment. The Jews have never rebuilt their Temple to this day. The site is fought over by Jews, Muslims and Christians, showing that none of them got the message that Jesus had conveyed to the Samaritan woman....geography no longer mattered.
So God chose a new nation to be his "people". (Acts 15:14) No single nation on earth could claim Jehovah as their God, because people of all nations could now come to Christ and be saved.
Acts 10:34-35...
"At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."

And the truth is, that was God's plan all along...his promise to Abraham was that "all the nations" would be blessed by the seed that Abraham's lineage would produce.

Jesus said that his God was looking for those who would "worship in spirit and truth".....what do you think he meant?


Is that an actual Bible translation? That is really taking liberties with the text...

The summarised bible is a Bible commentary. As far as I know, no other nation worships the god of the Jews. That rules out Yahweh as being the God of the whole world right away. Jesus would not worship Satan, with all the head banging, burnt offerings, special robes, ritual handwashing and infant sacrifice etc. Some people would call it Satanism. The roots of your religion are horrible. I have no wish to dwell on this subject any longer, and I cannot imagine any Christian would want to bring it up. A non-Christian, maybe (avatar). Remember, Jesus said their father is the devil. Jesus brought a new message which is rejected. Satan is the god of this world. This is not a fit subject for a Christian forum, and I am getting upset. End of.
.

 

[Brakelite]

The only basis for JWs to cling to their low view of Christ is Revelation 14. The language, beginning of the creation of God can be understood otherwise than JWs would have it. That Christ is purported to be a created being other than begotten, denies many other scriptures regarding Him being the Creator of all things. Instead of reading beginning of the creation of God, try beginner of the creation of God.

 

[JohnPaul]

"The god of this world" is satan the devil ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)...and he has the ability to "blind" people....not their eyes, but their "minds".....but he can only do it with "unbelievers".

Now, you tell me.....were the Jews of Jesus' day who rejected him as Messiah, "believers"? They believed in the same God that Jesus did and they had the same scriptures that he used, but they railed against what Jesus taught because he taught something different to what they did.
Who was right?

Read Matthew 7:21-23 and tell me who Jesus rejects on judgment day......believers or unbelievers?

Great post Aunty Jane! It would be the unbelievers that will be rejected, and I've said it before, the the Jews will not have salvation until they accept Christ has their Messiah, though there are many Jews who have and Arabs alike who have rejected the false religion of Islam and believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The only basis for JWs to cling to their low view of Christ is Revelation 14. The language, beginning of the creation of God can be understood otherwise than JWs would have it. That Christ is purported to be a created being other than begotten, denies many other scriptures regarding Him being the Creator of all things. Instead of reading beginning of the creation of God, try beginner of the creation of God.

How do we have a "low view of Christ", when we acknowledge him as the one sent by his Father to sacrifice his life for mankind? (John 17:3) We see him as the “Son of God” which is what he called himself. (John 10:36) Never once did Jesus claim to be God incarnate....that idea was not made 'church doctrine' until the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE declared these “three” to be “one” God. So where was the trinity from man’s beginning?
Until the foretold apostasy of the Christian Faith, in the centuries after Jesus death, it existed only in paganism.

Have you never questioned the “sonship” of Jesus and when his life began?
The man Jesus did not exist until God created him by transferring the lifeforce of his “firstborn” son from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin as the scriptures foretold. He existed in heaven before coming to earth, but that does not make him God or even equal to God.

The trinity teaches that there are three gods.....”God the Father...”God the Son”...and “God the Holy Spirit”. That is not one God but three separate gods. To squeeze them all into one “head” is merely an attempt to dodge the accusation of polytheism.

These three can be in different places at the same time, and talk to one another. Jesus prayed to his Father but not to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is never once said to be “God”, but like the son, is something that belongs to God. (God's son...God's spirit)

The role of God’s “firstborn” in Colossians presents him as the one “through” whom creation came. It did not come “from” him.
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (Colossians 1:15-17 ESV)

He is the “image” of his God...a true reflection of him in personality, words and actions. All things were created by him as the agency used by the Father....as it says “all things were created through him and for him”....it’s plainly stated unless you want to read over what it says and put a trinitarian spin on it.

The Son is not the Creator, but the one who put together or fabricated the raw materials that were brought into existence by Jehovah. The son comes from the Father like all sons do. A father naturally exists before his son, so why would God use that designation if the relationship between them was not that which humans understand that relationship to mean?

The son was "begotten" long before he came to earth. He is God's "firstborn" which in our understanding, means what? He is the first of many "sons of God". His creation was unique in that he was the first and only direct creation of his Father and enjoyed a closeness to to his Father that none of the others "sons" had. This is what "only begotten" means in his case.

The Holy Spirit is God’s power, directed to whomever, and wherever it is needed...and in due measure.

If humans exhibit multiple personalities, it is classed as a disorder....a mental illness. So if God was really three persons in one head, then those who exhibit multiple personalities should be classed a “normal”....or even “gifted”. Are they?

If the Jews were God’s chosen nation, and the only man in all of scripture to be designated as “God’s friend” was Abraham, then please tell me why this triune God who has supposedly always existed, was unknown to him or to the Jewish prophets? Where is this three headed god in OT scripture? He does not exist except in paganism. The Egyptians had their trinity....long before Jesus walked the earth.

The trinity can be traced back to Babylon.....hence I believe that those who uphold this doctrine are part of the greater Babylon.....spoken about in Revelation.....”Babylon the great” is disgusting to God and is portrayed as a prostitute, (Revelation 17:1-5, Revelation 18:2-5) something God accused his nation of being when they took up pagan religious beliefs and practices. (Ezekiel 23:35)

The trinity has been around so long that Christendom does not question it, but it is a clear breach of the first Commandment to put another “god” in the Father’s place, or on equal footing with him. (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 6:4)

Jesus is called “theos” (god) in the scriptures.....but so is satan. Being of divine origin, does not make him God’s equal, nor does it make him part of a “godhead”... a word that does not appear in the Bible at all.

The word "beginning" in Hebrew is "rē'šîṯ" and it means exactly that.

1. "first, beginning, best, chief
   1. beginning
      
      
   2. first
      
      
   3. chief
      
      
   4. choice part"

In Greek "beginning is "archē" which also means..."1. beginning, origin;
a. used absolutely, of the beginning of all things: ἐν ἀρχῇ, John 1:1"

I can find no verse in which this word means "beginner". And if you want to use "origin" it means the same thing...creation originated with the son as the agency used to bring all things into existence, working alongside his God and Father. (Proverbs 8:30-32; John 1:2-4)

Jesus has a God even in heaven.....
Revelation 3:12...
"The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name."

Now please tell me if these scripture state that Jesus is Almighty God.....? Or is he simply the unique, divine, "only begotten" Son of God, sent by his Father on a mercy mission?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The roots of your religion are horrible. I have no wish to dwell on this subject any longer, and I cannot imagine any Christian would want to bring it up. A non-Christian, maybe (avatar). Remember, Jesus said their father is the devil. Jesus brought a new message which is rejected. Satan is the god of this world.

I whole-heartedly agree with your statement here.....when the Jews strayed from the teachings of their God in that way, he punished them most severely, but their actions were in defiance of Yahweh, so you are blaming God for what his disobedient people did. He did not cease to be God because his nation were serial covenant breakers. He had a stated purpose for their choosing (to bring his Messiah into the world through Abraham’s lineage) and it was fulfilled.
Jesus showed that because of their refusal to accept him, God cast them off. (Matthew 23:37-39)

This is not a fit subject for a Christian forum, and I am getting upset.

If you call yourself a Christian, then what God did Jesus worship? It was the same God but he was horribly misrepresented by the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus came to "show us the father", which he did....beautifully.

You are getting upset for no good reason....you have a mindset and it is being challenged. Getting upset should make you want to go and find out if what you are hearing is true. Sitting is a corner pouting achieves nothing at this late stage.....we are staring down the barrel of “the great tribulation”, so we had better have chosen the right side of this issue....there are only "wheat and weeds"/“sheep and goats” in the world when Jesus comes as judge....in which category will we be found? (Matthew 7:21-23)

Who are we listening to? God or men?

 

[Brakelite]

How do we have a "low view of Christ", when we acknowledge him as the one sent by his Father to sacrifice his life for mankind? (John 17:3) We see him as the “Son of God” which is what he called himself. (John 10:36) Never once did Jesus claim to be God incarnate....that idea was not made 'church doctrine' until the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE declared these “three” to be “one” God. So where was the trinity from man’s beginning?
Until the foretold apostasy of the Christian Faith, in the centuries after Jesus death, it existed only in paganism.

Have you never questioned the “sonship” of Jesus and when his life began?
The man Jesus did not exist until God created him by transferring the lifeforce of his “firstborn” son from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin as the scriptures foretold. He existed in heaven before coming to earth, but that does not make him God or even equal to God.

The trinity teaches that there are three gods.....”God the Father...”God the Son”...and “God the Holy Spirit”. That is not one God but three separate gods. To squeeze them all into one “head” is merely an attempt to dodge the accusation of polytheism.

These three can be in different places at the same time, and talk to one another. Jesus prayed to his Father but not to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is never once said to be “God”, but like the son, is something that belongs to God. (God's son...God's spirit)

The role of God’s “firstborn” in Colossians presents him as the one “through” whom creation came. It did not come “from” him.
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (Colossians 1:15-17 ESV)

He is the “image” of his God...a true reflection of him in personality, words and actions. All things were created by him as the agency used by the Father....as it says “all things were created through him and for him”....it’s plainly stated unless you want to read over what it says and put a trinitarian spin on it.

The Son is not the Creator, but the one who put together or fabricated the raw materials that were brought into existence by Jehovah. The son comes from the Father like all sons do. A father naturally exists before his son, so why would God use that designation if the relationship between them was not that which humans understand that relationship to mean?

The son was "begotten" long before he came to earth. He is God's "firstborn" which in our understanding, means what? He is the first of many "sons of God". His creation was unique in that he was the first and only direct creation of his Father and enjoyed a closeness to to his Father that none of the others "sons" had. This is what "only begotten" means in his case.

The Holy Spirit is God’s power, directed to whomever, and wherever it is needed...and in due measure.

If humans exhibit multiple personalities, it is classed as a disorder....a mental illness. So if God was really three persons in one head, then those who exhibit multiple personalities should be classed a “normal”....or even “gifted”. Are they?

If the Jews were God’s chosen nation, and the only man in all of scripture to be designated as “God’s friend” was Abraham, then please tell me why this triune God who has supposedly always existed, was unknown to him or to the Jewish prophets? Where is this three headed god in OT scripture? He does not exist except in paganism. The Egyptians had their trinity....long before Jesus walked the earth.

The trinity can be traced back to Babylon.....hence I believe that those who uphold this doctrine are part of the greater Babylon.....spoken about in Revelation.....”Babylon the great” is disgusting to God and is portrayed as a prostitute, (Revelation 17:1-5, Revelation 18:2-5) something God accused his nation of being when they took up pagan religious beliefs and practices. (Ezekiel 23:35)

The trinity has been around so long that Christendom does not question it, but it is a clear breach of the first Commandment to put another “god” in the Father’s place, or on equal footing with him. (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 6:4)

Jesus is called “theos” (god) in the scriptures.....but so is satan. Being of divine origin, does not make him God’s equal, nor does it make him part of a “godhead”... a word that does not appear in the Bible at all.

The word "beginning" in Hebrew is "rē'šîṯ" and it means exactly that.

1. "first, beginning, best, chief
   1. beginning
      
      
   2. first
      
      
   3. chief
      
      
   4. choice part"

In Greek "beginning is "archē" which also means..."1. beginning, origin;
a. used absolutely, of the beginning of all things: ἐν ἀρχῇ, John 1:1"

I can find no verse in which this word means "beginner". And if you want to use "origin" it means the same thing...creation originated with the son as the agency used to bring all things into existence, working alongside his God and Father. (Proverbs 8:30-32; John 1:2-4)

Jesus has a God even in heaven.....
Revelation 3:12...
"The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name."

Now please tell me if these scripture state that Jesus is Almighty God.....? Or is he simply the unique, divine, "only begotten" Son of God, sent by his Father on a mercy mission?

That's a mighty long reply, touching on matters I wasn't addressing, and I have no intention of replying to ever point you made,
I will say this. First, I am not advocating a belief in the trinity as taught in the creeds and accepted in most churches. So your protestations on that account are irrelevant. Why do I say you denigrate Jesus? Because while you claim Him as a Son, you deny Him His proper heritage that He inherited from His Father. My son is human, why? Because I am.
Jesus is God because He was begotten of His Father, God. Like Father like Son. Good sent His Son into the world. God didn't send a created spirit into the world to become a son.

 

[Enoch111]

If you call yourself a Christian, then what God did Jesus worship?

You have dug yourself so deeply into a heretical hole that there is no escape for you. "What God did Jesus worship?" Really? Since God the Father called Jesus the Son "God" who do you think He worshipped? Since the apostle Thomas called Him "My Lord, and my God" who do you think the apostles worshipped? Who do you think Christians worship (since you are obviously not one)?

 

[Cooper]

If you call yourself a Christian, then what God did Jesus worship?

Who did the Mighty God worship? If you have eyes to see, and ears to hear you will realise what a silly question that is when you read:-

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven. John 3:13

The omnipresent "GOD with us" came down from heavens glory to be made visible in the likeness and image of man.

1Ti_6:15 which he will bring about at the right time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Rev_17:14 they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."

Rev_19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, "King of kings and Lord of lords."

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords, The mighty God, The everlasting Father. Then we are asked, "Who did Jesus worship!"

Well, humble man that he was, he taught us to say 'our Father' and Jesus would hear our prayers. God is One.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

First, I am not advocating a belief in the trinity as taught in the creeds and accepted in most churches. So your protestations on that account are irrelevant.

But if you put God and his son on equal footing, you are still breaching the first Commandment, regardless of how many "gods" there are.
I think you are confusing "divinity" with "deity". Jesus was a divine being, but he was not a deity.

Why do I say you denigrate Jesus? Because while you claim Him as a Son, you deny Him His proper heritage that He inherited from His Father.

His proper heritage? What heritage is that exactly? What Jesus inherited is what his God gave him.....that which was made "through him and for him".
You seem to forget that Jesus has a God even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)
Does one part of God worship his equal self? The Bible does not demand that Jesus had to be God in order to redeem mankind. What was the price of redemption...do you know?

My son is human, why? Because I am.

God and his son are not human. Why do you assume that Jesus must be God just because his Father is? If you want to put it in human terms then, is a son necessarily a genius just because his father is? Will a son of necessity be a carpenter, just because his father is?

Philippians 2:5-6 says that Jesus existed "in God's form"...so what "form" does God have?
John 4:24 says that "God is a spirit" and all who inhabit the spirit realm (heaven) are also "spirits"....so the "form" Jesus had before his earthly mission was "spirit" form. He does not have to be God to have a spirit body. His elect will be given a spirit body too so that they can join him in the heavenly kingdom. They too will then have "spirit" form.....does that make them God?

Jesus is God because He was begotten of His Father, God. Like Father like Son.

Someone who is 'begotten', needs a 'begetter'.....no son ever came into existence at the same time his father.....
You are pushing a relationship that the Bible does not support.
Ask yourself why they are called "Father and Son"....?

Good sent His Son into the world. God didn't send a created spirit into the world to become a son.

God's son is a created being.....as the scriptures I have shared show us. How can you ignore them?
Please tell me why Jesus cannot be what the scriptures call him....? It never once calls him Almighty God or even suggests equality.

Why is Jesus called "the last Adam"(1 Cor 15:45)......? What did he have in common with the "first" Adam?

Matthew 20:28....
"even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
What was the "ransom" and how did Jesus pay it?

These all connect to the reason why Jesus had to come to earth as a human.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You have dug yourself so deeply into a heretical hole that there is no escape for you.

Oh no! I'm terrified! Oh wait....I have a ladder.

"What God did Jesus worship?" Really? Since God the Father called Jesus the Son "God" who do you think He worshipped? Since the apostle Thomas called Him "My Lord, and my God" who do you think the apostles worshipped? Who do you think Christians worship (since you are obviously not one)?

Really?....the startled expression of a doubting Thomas is hardly a declaration of a doctrine.
According to the meaning of the Greek "theos" Jesus was a 'divine mighty one'...but he was NOT Almighty God.

Please provide the scripture where "God the Father called Jesus the Son "God"....

Who did the apostles worship...? Not Jesus. Who do Christians worship? The same God that Jesus worshipped....Yahweh...."God the Father".
1 Corinthians 8:5-6...
"For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

If you are going to quote scripture, make sure it is in accord with the rest of the Bible.....not just cherry picked to support what you want to believe.

You really are all bluster Enoch....how about you go and get your facts straight...

 

[Cooper]

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...
"For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

You are not seeing it. Try opening your spiritual eyes, if you have any, and read it again.

All things are from the Father.

All things are through the one Lord.

They are the ONE GOD in heaven and on earth.

 

[Enoch111]

You really are all bluster Enoch....how about you go and get your facts straight...

How about you get your doctrine straight instead of coming to a Christian forum to push your non-Christian heresies on others? You are trying to sow spiritual confusion here and it may be time to report you to the mods.