Salvation with works, not by works

[Episkopos]

What makes you think I have a lack of comprehension? Do you have a more meaningful question?

Are we so quickly leaving our discussion of the Word of God for this?

If you are not born again, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus said that, I'm just repeating it.

I saw the dead, small and great, all were judged by what was written in the books, and all who were not written in the book of life were cast into the lake of fire.

Only the living are received. Only those who have the spirit life, not the fleshy life, which is condemned.

Much love!

I'll just say this before no longer looking at your posts. Your lack of comprehension lies in that you are not reading the bible as it is written. You exchange "cannot see" for "will not see" as if the kingdom of God was still only in the future. You exchange a "cannot enter" for a "will not enter" (future tense rather than a present relationship with God).

So your proof texts have nothing to do with each other ...other than that's what you fancy.

Why then don't you also put being born again also into the future tense? Where is the consistency?

if a person is truly born again then he is given access into spiritual life RIGHT AWAY. No need to wait for an afterlife.

Eternal life doesn't begin in the future. Eternal life IS. The kingdom of God IS. A future salvation is not just for believers anyway. Jesus came to save the whole world...many will be saved by invitation to the great wedding feast...as guests. The idea for believers is to meet the conditions to know the Lord before then so as to be prepared as a Bride. But for that you will need more than faulty ideas about the kingdom of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Why do they what, deny God? Isn't Why answered with a reason? You are confusing me. What is it you are saying?

I'm saying our first and primary evidence of our salvation - this is to our selves - is our trust in Jesus. Do you agree or disagree?

Much love!

"I'm saying our first and primary evidence of our salvation - this is to our selves - is our trust in Jesus."

Agreed.

And I am probably trying to dig to deep with you, which is not edifying. So, I'll ask yes or no:

Does evidence of salvation ever include repentance from dead works, and good works of faith?

 

[robert derrick]

No I'm not.

I'm saying that when God sees we believe His Word, as we receive Jesus, believing in His Name, He begets us, and we are now that new person.

This is salvation, being born into God's family. Instead of sharing Adam's corruption, and the destiny of corrupt flesh, we now share Jesus' righteous nature, and share His eternal life.



Repentance, from Metanoia, means, the after mind, the result of having exchanged our old mind for a new mind. Repentance is having that new mind. When we choose to believe that Jesus is Lord, that He rose from the dead, this is to repudiate ourselves as our own lord, and embrace Jesus as Lord. That is repentance. The after mind, the mind of Christ.

Repentance is intrinsic to salvation but it's deeper than just saying we'll stop doing such and such. It's about who we are, and who we become.

Much love!

"Repentance is intrinsic to salvation but it's deeper than just saying we'll stop doing such and such. It's about who we are, and who we become."

True. Repentance of self without God, not just of certain sins against God is salvation and grace of God through faith.

And what about the outer repentance of dead works, to stop doing such and such? What part do they have in being saved?

 

[Grailhunter]

I'll just say this before no longer looking at your posts. Your lack of comprehension lies in that you are not reading the bible as it is written. You exchange "cannot see" for "will not see" as if the kingdom of God was still only in the future. You exchange a "cannot enter" for a "will not enter" (future tense rather than a present relationship with God).

So your proof texts have nothing to do with each other ...other than that's what you fancy.

Why then don't you also put being born again also into the future tense? Where is the consistency?

if a person is truly born again then he is given access into spiritual life RIGHT AWAY. No need to wait for an afterlife.

Eternal life doesn't begin in the future. Eternal life IS. The kingdom of God IS. A future salvation is not just for believers anyway. Jesus came to save the whole world...many will be saved by invitation to the great wedding feast...as guests. The idea for believers is to meet the conditions to know the Lord before then so as to be prepared as a Bride. But for that you will need more than faulty ideas about the kingdom of God.

Are you replying to someone?

 

[marks]

And I am probably trying to dig to deep with you, which is not edifying. So, I'll ask yes or no:

We can play it by ear, but if we are both just seeking to understand each other, and to respectfully share, I don't see a problem.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

We can play it by ear, but if we are both just seeking to understand each other, and to respectfully share, I don't see a problem.

Much love!

Great. So I think two more questions should do it for me, one agree/disagree, and the other is to expand on your point:

1. Does evidence of salvation ever include repentance from dead works, and good works of faith?

"Repentance is intrinsic to salvation but it's deeper than just saying we'll stop doing such and such. It's about who we are, and who we become."

2. And what about the outer repentance of dead works, to stop doing such and such? What part do they have in being saved?

 

[marks]

"I'm saying our first and primary evidence of our salvation - this is to our selves - is our trust in Jesus."

Agreed.

And I am probably trying to dig to deep with you, which is not edifying. So, I'll ask yes or no:

Does evidence of salvation ever include repentance from dead works, and good works of faith?

One thing I'm trying to express . . . to my understanding, repentance from dead works is intrinsic to salvation. That it's not just a determination to stop acting certain ways, but it's the repudiation of who and what we were, that dead thing that produced dead works. Repentance from dead works is the repudiation of all done in the flesh, the repudiation of flesh-life itself, as being a living death.

Now I know I'm going further than we generally undertand when we are saved. I hate me, I need Jesus, it's more like that I think. Or, I know I'm doomed, I need Jesus!

Perhaps the clearest way to answer what I think you are asking me is that we are saved - reborn - irrespective of any works good or bad, or rather, because of Jesus' righteousness and not our own.

Our salvation is rebirth, becoming a new person who is now related to God by birth. And this, having nothing to do with any works, if this is real, we are forever with God. If this has happened, we will change. Sometimes radical changes in thinking and behavior, sometimes only an inner numbness as we become separated from flesh and world.

Are works the evidence of salvation? Doing spiritual works, not doing fleshy works? They are to us. But God already know those who are His. So not to God.

But can the unsaved do things they approve of? Yes they can. Does that mean they are reborn?

How much are we talking about our own opinions of our perceptions of our selves? Measuring ourself by ourself?

I understand your caution in asking these questions!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Great. So I think two more questions should do it for me, one agree/disagree, and the other is to expand on your point:

1. Does evidence of salvation ever include repentance from dead works, and good works of faith?

"Repentance is intrinsic to salvation but it's deeper than just saying we'll stop doing such and such. It's about who we are, and who we become."

2. And what about the outer repentance of dead works, to stop doing such and such? What part do they have in being saved?

Post 64

 

[Episkopos]

Are you replying to someone?

LOL are you also ignoring marks?

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL are you also ignoring marks?

Most of the time.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'll just say this before no longer looking at your posts. Your lack of comprehension lies in that you are not reading the bible as it is written. You exchange "cannot see" for "will not see" as if the kingdom of God was still only in the future. You exchange a "cannot enter" for a "will not enter" (future tense rather than a present relationship with God).

So your proof texts have nothing to do with each other ...other than that's what you fancy.

Why then don't you also put being born again also into the future tense? Where is the consistency?

if a person is truly born again then he is given access into spiritual life RIGHT AWAY. No need to wait for an afterlife.

Eternal life doesn't begin in the future. Eternal life IS. The kingdom of God IS. A future salvation is not just for believers anyway. Jesus came to save the whole world...many will be saved by invitation to the great wedding feast...as guests. The idea for believers is to meet the conditions to know the Lord before then so as to be prepared as a Bride. But for that you will need more than faulty ideas about the kingdom of God.

Salvation is for believers only . Cling to the original gospel , not to this univeral one that so many are now clinging too .

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation is for believers only . Cling to the original gospel , not to this univeral one that so many are now clinging too .

people will always exaggerate one way or another. Finding a correct balance seems beyond the will and desire of men.

So people will champion one aspect of the truth against the other and then claim they are saved by so doing.

 

[amigo de christo]

people will always exaggerate one way or another. Finding a correct balance seems beyond the will and desire of men.

So people will champion one aspect of the truth against the other and then claim they are saved by so doing.

Some of us , very few , but some of us just aint buying the all inclusive universal lie , which cometh of the RCC
and has spread to protestanism and all religoins . As for me , I CLING TO THE ORIGNIAL GOSPEL .

 

[amigo de christo]

MARK , AND ANYONE ELSE . POINT THEM TO JESUS . ONLY THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE WILL BE SAVED .
AND I REST MY FAITH ON THAT . FAITH IN JESUS ALONE IS WHAT SAVES . ALL ELSE IS VAIN AND FUTILE AND
ITS END IS THE SECOND DEATH .

 

[Episkopos]

Some of us , very few , but some of us just aint buying the all inclusive universal lie , which cometh of the RCC
and has spread to protestanism and all religoins . As for me , I CLING TO THE ORIGNIAL GOSPEL .

That's the problem You claim to be preaching the original gospel. But what I see is a lack of balance. The original gospel was and continues to be in a perfect balance.

Did God so love the world that He sent His Son as an excuse to send people to hell?
Did God so hate His Son that He condemned Jesus for our sins?

Did God want us to get our doctrines right (like Rumpelstiltskin demanded we know his name) or else He will cast us into hell?

Love keeps a proper balance. A Christian is known by His love not by his judgments and doctrines. That would be the domain of the Pharisees. And unless our righteousness exceeds theirs then we will be where they are...outer darkness (not the lake of fire)

 

[marks]

if a person is truly born again then he is given access into spiritual life RIGHT AWAY. No need to wait for an afterlife.

You are clearly mistaking me for someone else. So it's just as well to ignore my posts. It seems you have been already.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

That's the problem You claim to be preaching the original gospel. But what I see is a lack of balance. The original gospel was and continues to be in a perfect balance.

Did God so love the world that He sent His Son as an excuse to send people to hell?
Did God so hate His Son that He condemned Jesus for our sins?

Did God want us to get our doctrines right (like Rumpelstiltskin demanded we know his name) or else He will cast us into hell?

Love keeps a proper balance. A Christian is known by His love not by his judgments and doctrines. That would be the domain of the Pharisees. And unless our righteousness exceeds theirs then we will be where they are...outer darkness (not the lake of fire)

You just left out what JESUS said .
HE DID say that GOD so loved the world that HE sent His only begotten SON , that all who DO BELIEVE WOULD BE SAVED .
AND he dont stop there . ALL WHO DONT WILL BE DAMNED . You are inventing your own gosple and god .
Please , i am not being mean . I Do care for your soul . Just cease this stuff . RETURN to the orignal hope , original gosple
found only in Christ .

 

[marks]

MARK , AND ANYONE ELSE . POINT THEM TO JESUS . ONLY THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE WILL BE SAVED .
AND I REST MY FAITH ON THAT . FAITH IN JESUS ALONE IS WHAT SAVES . ALL ELSE IS VAIN AND FUTILE AND
ITS END IS THE SECOND DEATH .

Amen!

 

[amigo de christo]

You are clearly mistaking me for someone else.

Much love!

CONTEND FOR THE ONE TRUE GOSPLE . It blows my mind that most folks call me a legalists
YET HERE i am defending the one true gospel . AND asking for SOME help from others . Have you read
what this man is saying . WE cannot let anyone believe any other hope . ONLY FAITH IN CHRIST SAVES .

 

[marks]

Salvation is for believers only . Cling to the original gospel , not to this univeral one that so many are now clinging too .

Universal salvation, salvation by works, yet Jesus said He is the only way.

Much love!