Why not Everyone will be Saved

[FaithWillDo]

No, nothing about that. Maybe I'll ask Them about it.

Dear 12question,
Before Christ appears to a believer, they must receive both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. When they receive the Early Rain, they will have a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. It is at this point they will make a confession of faith and will enter the church. But since the Early Rain is given in measure, it will not heal their spiritual blindness nor will it convert them. In this weak spiritual condition, Satan will come to the believer and deceive them through the spirit of anti-Christ. When Satan's spirit enters the believer, the Abomination of Desolation occurs within God's Temple (the believer). They will then start following Satan's deceptive teachings and will fall from grace. If the believer is one of the Elect, Christ will a second time to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain will come with "power" and will heal their spiritual blindness. After it is healed, they will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred with themselves. It is at this point that Christ will appear and gather the new child of God to heaven. Judgment will then follow and remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature) from within the believer. The believer will then have a new spiritual nature which will be governed by the Holy Spirit. This is conversion.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

If you have not been able to see the A of D, then Christ has not appeared to you.

Here is what Christ says for His unconverted Elect (a "son") to do:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain) to them that ask him?

After a believer receives the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed, they will see the "man of sin" and will realize that he has been one who has been looking back at them in the mirror. The Word of God will then open up to their understanding and they will quickly come to see that nearly all the doctrines of orthodox Christianity are false. It is at this point that Christ will appear.

Joe

 

[face2face]

Secondly, the tares, goats and Foolish Virgins represent the children of the devil who will all perish in the Lake of Fire. But before they perish, Christ's spiritual work of conversion under the New Covenant will give them a new birth as a child of God.

The Gospel according to Joe lol

 

[FaithWillDo]

The Gospel according to Joe lol

Dear face2face,
It's not my gospel. It's Christ's gospel. I showed you the scriptures but you refuse to believe them.
Joe

 

[face2face]

Dear face2face,
It's not my gospel. It's Christ's gospel. I showed you the scriptures but you refuse to believe them.
Joe

No, its your gospel Joe, because you force your own desires upon the text.

You twist the word for your own liking....take you quote above

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many;

Not all Joe!...the writer is quote Isaiah 53....talk to me about the group of those being saved?

If sin is not forgiven can a person be saved?

Yes or no?

 

[FaithWillDo]

No, its your gospel Joe, because you force your own desires upon the text.

You twist the word for your own liking....take you quote above

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many;

Not all Joe!...the writer is quote Isaiah 53....talk to me about the group of those being saved?

If sin is not forgiven can a person be saved?

Yes or no?

Dear face2face,

You are making assumptions about what "many" can mean. It can mean "all" just as Paul used it in Heb 9:28 and just as he uses it below:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the MANY have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the MANY.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the MANY have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the MANY will be constituted righteous.

Does not "many" in the verses above mean all? Of course it does because all mankind spiritually died because of Adam's disobedience. Mankind is many in number. And by the obedience of Christ the same "many" will be constituted righteous. No one left out.

These scriptures above are not hard to understand. They are not veiled by the spiritual language of Christ. Even unbelievers can understand what they are saying, they just won't believe them (like you are doing).

Your beliefs really are not coming from scripture. You have listened to the ministers of Satan and they have deceived you.

Joe

 

[face2face]

Dear face2face,

You are making assumptions about what "many" can mean. It can mean "all" just as Paul used it in Heb 9:28 and just as he uses it below:

It can mean all that is true, as all can refer to a group, or many.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the MANY have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the MANY.

Yes the free gift of grace has the potential to save the many, that is true however not all will be saved.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the MANY have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the MANY will be constituted righteous.

All men (and women) have been condemned, even the Christ was under deaths dominion and condemned to die! So Paul here is speaking to the atoning work of God in Christ and how "many" will have the opportunity of being saved, not all!

Does not "many" in the verses above mean all? Of course it does because all mankind spiritually died because of Adam's disobedience. Mankind is many in number. And by the obedience of Christ the same "many" will be constituted righteous. No one left out.

These scriptures above are not hard to understand. They are not veiled by the spiritual language of Christ. Even unbelievers can understand what they are saying, they just won't believe them (like you are doing).

Your beliefs really are not coming from scripture. You have listened to the ministers of Satan and they have deceived you.

Joe

So while you have us in Romans, I take it from your understanding the following teaching holds no meaning or value to you?

Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, 2:8 but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness.

You believe then

1. The reward is not limited as the writer implies nor does it vary according to your faith and works?
2. Part of that limited reward is eternal life (note not for all!)
3. No consequences for those on the receiving end of Gods wrath and anger?

Also in Romans 1 "God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them...

The Bible teaches those who "deserve" to die STAY dead - nothing more for them.

Do you know where the Bible teaches this?

I think not.

 

[FaithWillDo]

It can mean all that is true, as all can refer to a group, or many.


Yes the free gift of grace has the potential to save the many, that is true however not all will be saved.


All men (and women) have been condemned, even the Christ was under deaths dominion and condemned to die! So Paul here is speaking to the atoning work of God in Christ and how "many" will have the opportunity of being saved, not all!


So while you have us in Romans, I take it from your understand the following teaching holds no meaning or value to you?

Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, 2:8 but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness.

You believe then

1. The reward is not limited as the writer implies nor does it vary according to your faith and works?
2. Part of that limited reward is eternal life (note not for all!)
3. No consequences for those on the receiving end of Gods wrath and anger?

Also in Romans 1 "God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them...

The Bible teaches those who "deserve" to die STAY dead - nothing more for them.

Do you know where the Bible teaches this?

I think not.

Dear face2face,
You said:
Yes the free gift of grace has the potential to save the many, that is true however not all will be saved.

Why do you believe Christ can't save all mankind when scripture clearly teaches that Christ will save all mankind? There are many, many verses which state this truth.

Also, salvation is a free gift. It happens solely by Christ's spiritual work within a person and He does it at a time of His own choosing. Why does He do it this way? Because mankind is spiritually marred (Jer 18:4) which causes us all to become carnally minded shortly after we are born. In this carnal condition, no person has the ability to understand God or to even have a desire to seek Him out. To the natural man, Christ and His gospel are "foolishness":

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way for a person's rejection of Christ to change is for Christ to come to them without their asking and without their permission. When Christ comes to them, He will freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Spirit of Faith). With the Spirit of Faith, a person will ONLY make a confession of faith because the Early Rain of the Spirit will give the person a "measure of faith". Faith does not originate from within mankind. It is a free gift from Christ and cannot be refused:

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

You said:
Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the MANY have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the MANY will be constituted righteous.

All men (and women) have been condemned, even the Christ was under deaths dominion and condemned to die! So Paul here is speaking to the atoning work of God in Christ and how "many" will have the opportunity of being saved, not all!

Yes, all mankind is condemned and will perish. Nothing can change that from happening. By the end of the final age, all mankind will cease to exist. But because of the work of Christ, all mankind will be "born again" and will become a new creation. That creation is a sinless child of God who dwells in heaven.

Also, you are changing what Paul said in Rom 5:18. No where does it ever say that the many "will have an opportunity to be saved". You are literally making that up to support your false gospel you are teaching. Paul plainly and clearly says "the many will be constituted righteous". It is a certainty to happen because our salvation is a free gift from Christ. And what He desires, He will do:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

You have a "works based belief system" which comes from your carnal nature. All natural mankind has this belief system. It is called "religion".

When you read scripture, you are forcing scripture to fit into your works based belief system by twisting and changing God's Word - just as you are doing to Rom 5:18. Can't you see that you are doing this?

You said:
So while you have us in Romans, I take it from your understand the following teaching holds no meaning or value to you?

Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, 2:8 but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness.

First of all, the scripture does not say "eternal life", it says "life during the ages". There is no Greek word which means eternal. That translation came about because of translator bias to support the false beliefs of the apostate church. Just read the verse again. Why would those who are saved have the reward of "eternal life" AND "glory and honor and immortality"? Immortality is eternal life and it would not have been necessary to repeat it in the same sentence. But when the verse is properly translated as "life during the ages" it makes perfect sense to add "immortality".

The rewards of the Elect (the First Fruits) are to have life during the ages, immortality and the honor and glory of reigning with Christ during the final age. When the rewards are put into that order, it is easy to see that "eternal life" is an incorrect translation.

You said:
3. No consequences for those on the receiving end of Gods wrath and anger?

There will be plenty of consequences but because of God's grace, the lost people will still be saved before they perish. If it wasn't for God's grace, no one would be saved because no one is worthy of salvation. Do you think you are worthy in some way? You are not and neither am I. No one is worthy of salvation because the natural man hates God and believes that God's ways are "foolishness".

Have you not read this verse:

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

And this one:

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.

Christ said this to the actual Jews who had Him crucified. They died in their sins and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for judgment by Christ. But before they perish (after they have "consequences"), Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit of Faith, they will have the necessary faith for Christ to "come again" and convert them into child of God. The child of God will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is destroyed.

This is how Christ judges the lost in the Lake of Fire:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Why does Christ judge them in this manner?

This is why:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

You said:
The Bible teaches those who "deserve" to die STAY dead - nothing more for them.

Yes! I can finally agree with you on something. Mankind has sinned and the penalty of sin is death. That is why mankind must be "born again" and made into a new vessel:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) and by the end of the final age, all mankind will cease to exist. But because of the grace of God that is manifested in Christ, the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Joe

 

[face2face]

Dear face2face,
You said:
Yes the free gift of grace has the potential to save the many, that is true however not all will be saved.

Why do you believe Christ can't save all mankind when scripture clearly teaches that Christ will save all mankind? There are many, many verses which state this truth.

Also, salvation is a free gift.

True...a gift only to those who seek to understand & believe

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what
was I, that I could withstand God? Acts 11:17

It happens solely by Christ's spiritual work within a person and He does it at a time of His own choosing. Why does He do it this way? Because mankind is spiritually marred (Jer 18:4) which causes us all to become carnally minded shortly after we are born. In this carnal condition, no person has the ability to understand God or to even have a desire to seek Him out. To the natural man, Christ and His gospel are "foolishness":

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yes, good quote especially given the fact that only those who seek to understand and seek to believe can be saved.

Who are those who qualify now that the true Gospel has been revealed?

Romans 2:7-11 (ESV) to those (Group 1) who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those ( Group 2) who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Group 1 Seek to understand and believe
Group 2 Seek self and reward is eternal death

I love how you quote Romans 3 having not understood Romans 2 - very transparent.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

For some reason you continue to speak to the natural unenlightened man who if left in this state is completely and utterly dead. You are speaking to group 2 - speak to group 1 please.

The only way for a person's rejection of Christ to change is for Christ to come to them without their asking and without their permission. When Christ comes to them, He will freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Spirit of Faith). With the Spirit of Faith, a person will ONLY make a confession of faith because the Early Rain of the Spirit will give the person a "measure of faith". Faith does not originate from within mankind. It is a free gift from Christ and cannot be refused:

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

For those who are not in group 1

Ephesians 2:1 And although you were dead (in Group 1) in your transgressions and sins, 2:2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path

Don't you find it odd that your posts contain two groups of people.

1. Unenlightened (unsaved)
2 Enlightened (potential for being saved)

You said:
Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the MANY have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the MANY will be constituted righteous.

All men (and women) have been condemned, even the Christ was under deaths dominion and condemned to die! So Paul here is speaking to the atoning work of God in Christ and how "many" will have the opportunity of being saved, not all!

Yes, all mankind is condemned and will perish. Nothing can change that from happening. By the end of the final age, all mankind will cease to exist. But because of the work of Christ, all mankind will be "born again" and will become a new creation. That creation is a sinless child of God who dwells in heaven.

Quote?

Also, you are changing what Paul said in Rom 5:18. No where does it ever say that the many "will have an opportunity to be saved". You are literally making that up to support your false gospel you are teaching. Paul plainly and clearly says "the many will be constituted righteous". It is a certainty to happen because our salvation is a free gift from Christ. And what He desires, He will do:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isaiah 55:11 is true - His Word will achieve what He sends it out to do.

Lets apply this principle for this subject then.

Go to Acts 15 to show the Ministering of the Gospel through Peter:

15:14 Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. Ac 15:14.

KJV has "to take" here it has "to select" to mean its an invitation.

Salvation is essentially the calling of God.

Individuals are summoned to respond to His will; and in that sense, the gospel is not a personal choice, but an injunction to be obeyed, for
God "now commands all (all is all here!) men everywhere to repent" (not all will!) as per Acts 17:30. Now God is taking individuals, as a parent determines to have a child. It is the act of the parent not that of the child; therefore having been called by the understanding of the gospel, a person must respond, however not all will!

Once a person is invited to become a child of His they are separated to Him.

The selection is from "among" the Gentiles - the emphasizes the need to uphold and maintain a separation from worldliness
by those who seek the divine restoration - read 1 Cor 6:17; Rev. 18:4.

1 Corith 6:17 But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him...(not all!)

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so you will not take part in her sins and so you will not receive her plagues Re 18:4.

Those who fail to unite with the Lord take no part in him.

But why is God calling individuals from the nations?

"a people for His name"

The memorial name of the Deity is the Hebrew Yahweh, declared through Moses when Israel was brought out of Egypt, and
constituted as the firstborn national son (Psa. 136:11).

So from this verse we have the following facts:

1. Gentiles are being invited to enter Christ
2. Gentiles are being separated unto Christ
3. Gentiles are dedicating their lives to Christ

Now whats interesting is it goes on to say the Prophets agree with Peter "And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written" — Read Jer 12:15;14 & Amos 9:11-12.

Whats apparent is you do not (warning)!

Jer 12:17 But I will completely uproot and destroy any of those nations that will not pay heed,” says the Lord.

But those who accept have no need to fear!

Amen and amen.

 

[12question]

Dear 12question,
Before Christ appears to a believer, they must receive both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. When they receive the Early Rain, they will have a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. It is at this point they will make a confession of faith and will enter the church. But since the Early Rain is given in measure, it will not heal their spiritual blindness nor will it convert them. In this weak spiritual condition, Satan will come to the believer and deceive them through the spirit of anti-Christ. When Satan's spirit enters the believer, the Abomination of Desolation occurs within God's Temple (the believer). They will then start following Satan's deceptive teachings and will fall from grace. If the believer is one of the Elect, Christ will a second time to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain will come with "power" and will heal their spiritual blindness. After it is healed, they will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred with themselves. It is at this point that Christ will appear and gather the new child of God to heaven. Judgment will then follow and remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature) from within the believer. The believer will then have a new spiritual nature which will be governed by the Holy Spirit. This is conversion.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

If you have not been able to see the A of D, then Christ has not appeared to you.

Here is what Christ says for His unconverted Elect (a "son") to do:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain) to them that ask him?

After a believer receives the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed, they will see the "man of sin" and will realize that he has been one who has been looking back at them in the mirror. The Word of God will then open up to their understanding and they will quickly come to see that nearly all the doctrines of orthodox Christianity are false. It is at this point that Christ will appear.

Joe

Thanks for your question Joe.
I read your post.
I'll get back to you if the Spirit sheds more light to me on this.

 

[gordon7]

Dear face2face,
It's not my gospel. It's Christ's gospel. I showed you the scriptures but you refuse to believe them.
Joe

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[gordon7]

Have you not read this verse:

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

And this one:

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.

Christ said this to the actual Jews who had Him crucified. They died in their sins and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for judgment by Christ. But before they perish (after they have "consequences"), Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit of Faith, they will have the necessary faith for Christ to "come again" and convert them into child of God. The child of God will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is destroyed.

You say others dont hear you, do you hear another. ( of you do maybe you can show that now instead of one action only to hear our own self/lovers of our own selves)

Also if anyone feared God on the corrupt forums, they would be quiet knowing so many false teachers were predicted and are among us now. ( to not be one of them and join in with the blasphemous heresy predicted)

I have read the verses, so lets see them, all together. ( A GREAT DEAL OF CONTEXT)



You shall not enter the kingdom except your righteousness ( belief in righteousness. Romans 10:9-10) exceeds the unbelieving Pharisees.

Danger of the judgement, danger of hell fire. ( HELL, to FEAR. Luke 12:5) Make peace unless you are delivered to the prison, and we do not come out until we pay the uttermost. ( our soul damned forever in hell)

Not every one who says Lord to Christ enters the kingdom. ( those who do the will of God enter)

Many say Lord, Lord, He says He never knew them, to XDEPART FROM HIM, who work iniquity. ( iniquity=ungodliness=unbelieving)

Many come to sit with Abraham in the kingdom. But the children of the kingdom ( Israel/all of the letter of the law and not of faith) shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS, hen weeping and gnashing of teeth.)

Jesus said to us, unless we be converted and become as little children, we shall not enter into the kingdom.

How HARDLY, SHALL THEY THAT TRUST IN RICHES ENTER THE KINGDOM.

The harlots go into the kingdom before those who do not believe. ( BECAUSE THEY DID NOT REPENT AFTERWARDS TO BELIEVE.)

The king saw a man that had no wedding garment. He was speechless as to how he got in ?

The order is to bind him hand and foot and cast him into outer darkness. ( WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO THIS ?) As many are called and few are chosen, that is WHY there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Woe to the Pharisee HYPOCRITES, they shut up the kingdom against men, they do not enter, ( sincerely) neither do they allow others to enter. ( sincerely)

If the evil servant says the Lord delays HIs coming, smiting fellow servants, eating and drinking with the drunken, the Lord comes when he is unaware. Cutting him asunder, and appointing him his portion with the HYPOCRITES. ( there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.)

Cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness. ( THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH)

In as much as they did not do good unto the least of these, they did good not to Christ. ( they shall go AWAY INTO EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.) The righteous into LIFE ETERNAL...



Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[gordon7]

The HYPOCRITES cannot discern the time. They do not judge what is RIGHT.

They are instructed to GIVE DILLIGENCE, to be DELIVERED, from the prison. ( they do not depart until they have laid the VERY LAST)

They say Lord to Christ, He tells them, He does not know them, to DEPART FROM HIM, for working iniquity ( ungodliness/unrighteousness)

To behold, there are last which shall be first, and the first ( the hypocrites) SHALL BE LAST. ( WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, WHEN THEY SEE ABRAHAM IN THE KINGDOM, AND THEY ARE THRUST OUT.)

Except a man be born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom.

Jesus told the hypocrites, to stop thinking they have ETERNAL LIFE, because they WILL NOT COME UNTO HIM TO HAVE LIFE.

Many walk as apostle Paul told us WEEPING, who are the ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. whose END IS DESTRUCTION, who mind EARTHLY THINGS...



Luke 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

 

[FaithWillDo]

True...a gift only to those who seek to understand & believe

Dear face2face,
You said:
True...a gift only to those who seek to understand & believe

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what
was I, that I could withstand God? Acts 11:17

You keep falling back to mankind having the ability to seek out God and to understand Him but scripture says that no person has that ability.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The people "who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" have been given the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit by Jesus. If Christ had not come to them and freely given them this gift, they would receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire.

You really do not believe this verse below:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

If you would believe just these two verses I quoted above, your "works" based salvation would collapse.

You asked:
Who are those who qualify now that the true Gospel has been revealed?

Romans 2:7-11 (ESV) to those (Group 1) who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those ( Group 2) who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Group 1 has been given the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit because Christ chose to give the Spirit to them. Without that free gift, they would be headed for wrath like Group 2. The spiritual work of Christ is what causes Group 1 to be different from Group 2. You keep adding in your false belief of man's "works" to scripture. Mankind has no works to perform under the New Covenant. The New Covenant is 100% the spiritual works of Christ. He is the one who changes hearts and minds and He does it by giving a person the Holy Spirit.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, but of him that calleth.

You do not believe what Paul presented above because those verses destroy any notion that mankind has any part to play in their salvation. You are still trying to receive salvation by the Old Covenant of Law.

You said:
For some reason you continue to speak to the natural unenlightened man who if left in this state is completely and utterly dead. You are speaking to group 2 - speak to group 1 please.

Group 1 used to be exactly like Group 2 before Christ came to them and freely gave them the Spirit.

Group 1 is the "workmanship" of Christ. They were chosen for salvation in this age from the foundation of the world before they ever did any good or evil. They are the "election" of God. They did absolutely nothing to deserve this blessing. That is why the New Covenant is called GRACE through faith. The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gave them their faith. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is what gave them truth and it is by this truth that they were converted.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

You do not believe this scripture above either.

You asked about mankind being condemned. Here are some scriptures:

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mankind has no ability to bring forth good fruit. All mankind will perish in the Lake of Fire.

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

When Christ converts a person, He will grind them to powder. They will be utterly destroyed. After Christ gives a new birth to the last person who has ever lived, all mankind will cease to exist.

1Thes 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

No one will escape destruction when Christ comes to them. All mankind is "condemned already" and will perish by the Judgment of Christ.

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Since all mankind is condemned already because of sin, the only way to save mankind is for Christ to convert mankind into a new creation. This is the work given to Christ by His Father and why the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Since you add man's "works" to salvation, you say that not everyone will be saved. But scripture teaches that salvation is a free gift and that it comes to us solely by the works of Christ that He does within us.

With your false belief in adding in man's "works" to salvation, you are saying that the people who are saved are somehow smarter, wiser or just less evil than those who reject Christ. If this were the case, the saved individuals would have something that they could boast about to those who remain lost. But as Paul said in Eph 2:8, this is not the case because no man has anything that they can boast about concerning their salvation. Their salvation was a free gift from God.

Can't you see that you are following the "crooked way" of Satan which mixes man's works with the works of Christ? You cannot serve two masters and be saved.

I'll answer your other comments in a second post.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

True...a gift only to those who seek to understand & believe

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what
was I, that I could withstand God? Acts 11:17


Yes, good quote especially given the fact that only those who seek to understand and seek to believe can be saved.

Who are those who qualify now that the true Gospel has been revealed?

Romans 2:7-11 (ESV) to those (Group 1) who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those ( Group 2) who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Group 1 Seek to understand and believe
Group 2 Seek self and reward is eternal death

I love how you quote Romans 3 having not understood Romans 2 - very transparent.



For some reason you continue to speak to the natural unenlightened man who if left in this state is completely and utterly dead. You are speaking to group 2 - speak to group 1 please.



For those who are not in group 1

Ephesians 2:1 And although you were dead (in Group 1) in your transgressions and sins, 2:2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path

Don't you find it odd that your posts contain two groups of people.

1. Unenlightened (unsaved)
2 Enlightened (potential for being saved)




Quote?



Isaiah 55:11 is true - His Word will achieve what He sends it out to do.

Lets apply this principle for this subject then.

Go to Acts 15 to show the Ministering of the Gospel through Peter:

15:14 Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. Ac 15:14.

KJV has "to take" here it has "to select" to mean its an invitation.

Salvation is essentially the calling of God.

Individuals are summoned to respond to His will; and in that sense, the gospel is not a personal choice, but an injunction to be obeyed, for
God "now commands all (all is all here!) men everywhere to repent" (not all will!) as per Acts 17:30. Now God is taking individuals, as a parent determines to have a child. It is the act of the parent not that of the child; therefore having been called by the understanding of the gospel, a person must respond, however not all will!

Once a person is invited to become a child of His they are separated to Him.

The selection is from "among" the Gentiles - the emphasizes the need to uphold and maintain a separation from worldliness
by those who seek the divine restoration - read 1 Cor 6:17; Rev. 18:4.

1 Corith 6:17 But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him...(not all!)

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so you will not take part in her sins and so you will not receive her plagues Re 18:4.

Those who fail to unite with the Lord take no part in him.

But why is God calling individuals from the nations?

"a people for His name"

The memorial name of the Deity is the Hebrew Yahweh, declared through Moses when Israel was brought out of Egypt, and
constituted as the firstborn national son (Psa. 136:11).

So from this verse we have the following facts:

1. Gentiles are being invited to enter Christ
2. Gentiles are being separated unto Christ
3. Gentiles are dedicating their lives to Christ

Now whats interesting is it goes on to say the Prophets agree with Peter "And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written" — Read Jer 12:15;14 & Amos 9:11-12.

Whats apparent is you do not (warning)!

Jer 12:17 But I will completely uproot and destroy any of those nations that will not pay heed,” says the Lord.

But those who accept have no need to fear!

Amen and amen.

Dear face2face,
You said:
15:14 Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. Ac 15:14.

KJV has "to take" here it has "to select" to mean its an invitation.

Salvation is essentially the calling of God.

To fit what Peter said into your belief in "works", you have to change the definition of "select" to mean "an invitation". Can't you see what you are doing here is wrong?

Also, the calling of God is NOT salvation.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Many people are given the Early Rain of the Spirit and will enter the church. But only those who were also chosen (selected) will be given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and be saved. The chosen are "few". They are the ones who are the heirs and who will have "life during the ages". Everyone else will be saved during their time of judgment in the Lake of Fire. They will suffer "loss" but they will still be saved by fire:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (the Elect) shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he (the rest of mankind) shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You said:
Individuals are summoned to respond to His will; and in that sense, the gospel is not a personal choice, but an injunction to be obeyed, for
God "now commands all (all is all here!) men everywhere to repent" (not all will!) as per Acts 17:30. Now God is taking individuals, as a parent determines to have a child. It is the act of the parent not that of the child; therefore having been called by the understanding of the gospel, a person must respond, however not all will!

Once a person is invited to become a child of His they are separated to Him.

The selection is from "among" the Gentiles - the emphasizes the need to uphold and maintain a separation from worldliness
by those who seek the divine restoration - read 1 Cor 6:17; Rev. 18:4.

1 Corith 6:17 But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him...(not all!)

Only the people to whom Christ has given the Early Rain of the Sprit to will respond to the "foolishness of preaching". Without the Spirit, Christ and His Gospel are foolishness to a person. You have elevated mankind to be more than they are. No one can understand God or seek Him out. In fact, their carnal mind hates God. Only Christ can change this truth and He does so by His spiritual work that He does within a person. Until Christ does this work, no one has the ability to ever accept Christ as Lord. And after He does His work, the only thing they will choose is to confess that Jesus is Lord.

Your other comments in your post are based upon man's "works" and since I have responded to that before, I will not do so again.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

You say others dont hear you, do you hear another. ( of you do maybe you can show that now instead of one action only to hear our own self/lovers of our own selves)

Also if anyone feared God on the corrupt forums, they would be quiet knowing so many false teachers were predicted and are among us now. ( to not be one of them and join in with the blasphemous heresy predicted)

I have read the verses, so lets see them, all together. ( A GREAT DEAL OF CONTEXT)



You shall not enter the kingdom except your righteousness ( belief in righteousness. Romans 10:9-10) exceeds the unbelieving Pharisees.

Danger of the judgement, danger of hell fire. ( HELL, to FEAR. Luke 12:5) Make peace unless you are delivered to the prison, and we do not come out until we pay the uttermost. ( our soul damned forever in hell)

Not every one who says Lord to Christ enters the kingdom. ( those who do the will of God enter)

Many say Lord, Lord, He says He never knew them, to XDEPART FROM HIM, who work iniquity. ( iniquity=ungodliness=unbelieving)

Many come to sit with Abraham in the kingdom. But the children of the kingdom ( Israel/all of the letter of the law and not of faith) shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS, hen weeping and gnashing of teeth.)

Jesus said to us, unless we be converted and become as little children, we shall not enter into the kingdom.

How HARDLY, SHALL THEY THAT TRUST IN RICHES ENTER THE KINGDOM.

The harlots go into the kingdom before those who do not believe. ( BECAUSE THEY DID NOT REPENT AFTERWARDS TO BELIEVE.)

The king saw a man that had no wedding garment. He was speechless as to how he got in ?

The order is to bind him hand and foot and cast him into outer darkness. ( WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO THIS ?) As many are called and few are chosen, that is WHY there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Woe to the Pharisee HYPOCRITES, they shut up the kingdom against men, they do not enter, ( sincerely) neither do they allow others to enter. ( sincerely)

If the evil servant says the Lord delays HIs coming, smiting fellow servants, eating and drinking with the drunken, the Lord comes when he is unaware. Cutting him asunder, and appointing him his portion with the HYPOCRITES. ( there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.)

Cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness. ( THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH)

In as much as they did not do good unto the least of these, they did good not to Christ. ( they shall go AWAY INTO EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.) The righteous into LIFE ETERNAL...



Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Dear gordon7,
You do not understand conversion or the plan Christ established to save mankind.

Mankind is condemned already because of sin and everyone is headed for that death. Before that happens though, Christ will come to every person who has ever lived and freely give them a new birth as a child of God. Only the child of God can believe in Christ. Carnal mankind has no such ability and never will.

In this age, Christ is only saving the people who were CHOSEN to be heirs/first fruits. They are few in number and are highly blessed.
They did nothing to deserve this honor.

In the final age, Christ will use His Elect to help bring in the full harvest of mankind. At that time, Christ will have mercy upon the lost and will give them a new birth. After the new birth, Christ will destroy who they used to be (a child of the devil). In the end, God will be "all in all" - no one left out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Do you believe what Paul said here:

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe

 

[face2face]

Dear face2face,
You said:
True...a gift only to those who seek to understand & believe

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what
was I, that I could withstand God? Acts 11:17

You keep falling back to mankind having the ability to seek out God and to understand Him but scripture says that no person has that ability.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The people "who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" have been given the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit by Jesus. If Christ had not come to them and freely given them this gift, they would receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire.

You really do not believe this verse below:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

If you would believe just these two verses I quoted above, your "works" based salvation would collapse.

You asked:
Who are those who qualify now that the true Gospel has been revealed?

Romans 2:7-11 (ESV) to those (Group 1) who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those ( Group 2) who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Group 1 has been given the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit because Christ chose to give the Spirit to them. Without that free gift, they would be headed for wrath like Group 2. The spiritual work of Christ is what causes Group 1 to be different from Group 2. You keep adding in your false belief of man's "works" to scripture. Mankind has no works to perform under the New Covenant. The New Covenant is 100% the spiritual works of Christ. He is the one who changes hearts and minds and He does it by giving a person the Holy Spirit.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, but of him that calleth.

You do not believe what Paul presented above because those verses destroy any notion that mankind has any part to play in their salvation. You are still trying to receive salvation by the Old Covenant of Law.

You said:
For some reason you continue to speak to the natural unenlightened man who if left in this state is completely and utterly dead. You are speaking to group 2 - speak to group 1 please.

Group 1 used to be exactly like Group 2 before Christ came to them and freely gave them the Spirit.

Group 1 is the "workmanship" of Christ. They were chosen for salvation in this age from the foundation of the world before they ever did any good or evil. They are the "election" of God. They did absolutely nothing to deserve this blessing. That is why the New Covenant is called GRACE through faith. The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gave them their faith. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is what gave them truth and it is by this truth that they were converted.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

You do not believe this scripture above either.

You asked about mankind being condemned. Here are some scriptures:

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mankind has no ability to bring forth good fruit. All mankind will perish in the Lake of Fire.

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

When Christ converts a person, He will grind them to powder. They will be utterly destroyed. After Christ gives a new birth to the last person who has ever lived, all mankind will cease to exist.

1Thes 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

No one will escape destruction when Christ comes to them. All mankind is "condemned already" and will perish by the Judgment of Christ.

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Since all mankind is condemned already because of sin, the only way to save mankind is for Christ to convert mankind into a new creation. This is the work given to Christ by His Father and why the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Since you add man's "works" to salvation, you say that not everyone will be saved. But scripture teaches that salvation is a free gift and that it comes to us solely by the works of Christ that He does within us.

With your false belief in adding in man's "works" to salvation, you are saying that the people who are saved are somehow smarter, wiser or just less evil than those who reject Christ. If this were the case, the saved individuals would have something that they could boast about to those who remain lost. But as Paul said in Eph 2:8, this is not the case because no man has anything that they can boast about concerning their salvation. Their salvation was a free gift from God.

Can't you see that you are following the "crooked way" of Satan which mixes man's works with the works of Christ? You cannot serve two masters and be saved.

I'll answer your other comments in a second post.

Joe

Joe,

If I am right, what you believe is no-one can believe therefore all are saved.

F2F

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe,

If I am right, what you believe is no-one can believe therefore all are saved.

F2F

Dear face2face,
Yes, mankind (being carnally minded and sinful) has no ability to understand Christ or to have faith in Christ. Only the children of God (those who have the indwelling of the Early & Latter Rains of the Holy Spirit) have that ability. Because of such, mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to give them the Spirit so that they can be saved. Christ will then immediately judge the believer which will remove the "chaff". After their judgment is complete, they will be converted.

John the Baptist mentions the two steps of a person's conversion below. They are the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and the baptism of Fire (judgment).

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

In this age, Christ is only saving the people who have been chosen for an early salvation. They are called heirs, Elect, saints and first fruits.

But even the Elect must experience their "day of evil" by becoming "worse than the first"; a "man of sin" before they are converted.

All believers (the many called) will experience the apostasy shortly after they are given the Early Rain of the Spirit. From that group of many, a "few" have been chosen for salvation before they die. For them, they are given the extra flask of oil (anointing of the Latter Rain of the Spirit) as shown in the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Notice in that parable that all ten virgins sleep (loss of salvation) at night (spiritual blindness). Then, at the deepest part of the night (midnight), the call goes out that the Bridegroom is coming. Only the wise virgins can go out to meet the Bridegroom because they have the extra oil which restores them to faith. When Christ arrives, He finds the Elect as a "chaste virgin" because they have been "born again" as a sinless child of God. Christ then gathers up His bride to heaven and the marriage takes place.

Notice in that parable that Christ only comes to the Elect believer at midnight. This is the deepest part of their spiritual blindness when they are completely under the influence of Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. This concept matches up with these two scriptures:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The apostate Elect believer will be dwelling at night, in peace and safety, in the apostate church when Christ returns. They believe that they are saved and are following Christ but they are not because they are under Satan's deceptions. When Christ comes, He will pour out the Latter Rain and heal their spiritual blindness. After they "see" the Abomination of Desolation, the truth will bring sudden destruction to the "man of sin" (2Thes 2:8) and it will burn up the natural earth (carnal nature) and the natural heaven (carnal mind).

Note: the new Earth is the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit and the new Heaven is the mind of Christ.

Below, Christ mentions the spiritual state of an Elect believer just before He returns to them:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The "gospel of the kingdom" (mixes works with faith) is Satan's "another gospel (2Cor 11:4). When it is preached to the Elect believer (preached in all the world) and has been fully accepted by them (witness unto all nations), the end will come. The end represents the conversion event.

When Christ returns and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the Elect believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will then "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

This event above occurs during the Marriage Supper of the Lamb where Christ feeds the newly "born again" Elect believer (bride) His truth of bread and New Wine. Before that time, the Elect believer was carnally minded and was unable to receive the spiritual teachings of God's Word. After the Elect believer is sufficiently nourished, the truth they have received directly from Christ will bring judgment to the man of sin and to the Great Harlot (their worsened carnal nature).

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (as Lot "typed" before judgment fell)

After the Elect believer's judgment is complete, they will be converted and forever saved.

In the teachings of Christ, there are many scriptures which teach the pathway to salvation that Christ causes His Elect to travel. Christ teaches it in His spiritual language "here a little, and there a little, line upon line and precept upon precept". He teaches it this way so that carnally minded people cannot understand His spiritual teachings. Why does He do it this way? So that a new believer (not drawn from the breasts) will "fall backward and be broken, and taken and snared" by Satan.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will become spiritually near-sighted (Mark 8:15-25). Peter equates this to being spiritually blind (2Pet 1:9). In this condition, the new believer can only receive the milk of the word (Christ and Him crucified) which is the physical work of Christ that He did under the Old Covenant. The spiritual teachings of the New Covenant will remain veiled (blurred). For that reason, Satan can come to the new believer and easily deceive them. After he does, they will fall backward and be broken (loss of salvation), taken and snared so that they are unknowingly following Satan instead of Christ. This is the apostate church. Mat 12:43-45 explains how this spiritual process of falling away happens and it happens because of the new believer's spiritual blindness. No new believer can avoid it happening to them because Christ directs their path.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

I hope you can receive at least some of what I presented, but as in all things: as the Lord "wills".

Joe

 

[quietthinker]

Dear face2face,
Yes, mankind (being carnally minded and sinful) has no ability to understand Christ or to have faith in Christ. Only the children of God (those who have the indwelling of the Early & Latter Rains of the Holy Spirit) have that ability. Because of such, mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to give them the Spirit so that they can be saved. Christ will then immediately judge the believer which will remove the "chaff". After their judgment is complete, they will be converted.

John the Baptist mentions the two steps of a person's conversion below. They are the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and the baptism of Fire (judgment).

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

In this age, Christ is only saving the people who have been chosen for an early salvation. They are called heirs, Elect, saints and first fruits.

But even the Elect must experience their "day of evil" by becoming "worse than the first"; a "man of sin" before they are converted.

All believers (the many called) will experience the apostasy shortly after they are given the Early Rain of the Spirit. From that group of many, a "few" have been chosen for salvation before they die. For them, they are given the extra flask of oil (anointing of the Latter Rain of the Spirit) as shown in the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Notice in that parable that all ten virgins sleep (loss of salvation) at night (spiritual blindness). Then, at the deepest part of the night (midnight), the call goes out that the Bridegroom is coming. Only the wise virgins can go out to meet the Bridegroom because they have the extra oil which restores them to faith. When Christ arrives, He finds the Elect as a "chaste virgin" because they have been "born again" as a sinless child of God. Christ then gathers up His bride to heaven and the marriage takes place.

Notice in that parable that Christ only comes to the Elect believer at midnight. This is the deepest part of their spiritual blindness when they are completely under the influence of Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. This concept matches up with these two scriptures:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The apostate Elect believer will be dwelling at night, in peace and safety, in the apostate church when Christ returns. They believe that they are saved and are following Christ but they are not because they are under Satan's deceptions. When Christ comes, He will pour out the Latter Rain and heal their spiritual blindness. After they "see" the Abomination of Desolation, the truth will bring sudden destruction to the "man of sin" (2Thes 2:8) and it will burn up the natural earth (carnal nature) and the natural heaven (carnal mind).

Note: the new Earth is the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit and the new Heaven is the mind of Christ.

Below, Christ mentions the spiritual state of an Elect believer just before He returns to them:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The "gospel of the kingdom" (mixes works with faith) is Satan's "another gospel (2Cor 11:4). When it is preached to the Elect believer (preached in all the world) and has been fully accepted by them (witness unto all nations), the end will come. The end represents the conversion event.

When Christ returns and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the Elect believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will then "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

This event above occurs during the Marriage Supper of the Lamb where Christ feeds the newly "born again" Elect believer (bride) His truth of bread and New Wine. Before that time, the Elect believer was carnally minded and was unable to receive the spiritual teachings of God's Word. After the Elect believer is sufficiently nourished, the truth they have received directly from Christ will bring judgment to the man of sin and to the Great Harlot (their worsened carnal nature).

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (as Lot "typed" before judgment fell)

After the Elect believer's judgment is complete, they will be converted and forever saved.

In the teachings of Christ, there are many scriptures which teach the pathway to salvation that Christ causes His Elect to travel. Christ teaches it in His spiritual language "here a little, and there a little, line upon line and precept upon precept". He teaches it this way so that carnally minded people cannot understand His spiritual teachings. Why does He do it this way? So that a new believer (not drawn from the breasts) will "fall backward and be broken, and taken and snared" by Satan.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will become spiritually near-sighted (Mark 8:15-25). Peter equates this to being spiritually blind (2Pet 1:9). In this condition, the new believer can only receive the milk of the word (Christ and Him crucified) which is the physical work of Christ that He did under the Old Covenant. The spiritual teachings of the New Covenant will remain veiled (blurred). For that reason, Satan can come to the new believer and easily deceive them. After he does, they will fall backward and be broken (loss of salvation), taken and snared so that they are unknowingly following Satan instead of Christ. This is the apostate church. Mat 12:43-45 explains how this spiritual process of falling away happens and it happens because of the new believer's spiritual blindness. No new believer can avoid it happening to them because Christ directs their path.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

I hope you can receive at least some of what I presented, but as in all things: as the Lord "wills".

Joe

In the interim I s'pose we just shower all and sundry with bucket loads of advice?

 

[gordon7]

Here is why nobody is saved on earth right now, because who on this forum has an ounce of fear of God and therefore no fruit...


2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

 

[FaithWillDo]

In the interim I s'pose we just shower all and sundry with bucket loads of advice?

Dear quietthinker,
It is by the "foolishness of preaching" that an fallen away believer is told the truth of God's Word. If the believer is one of the Elect and Christ has healed their spiritual blindness, they will be able to receive the truth of that preaching. When they do, their restored faith will make the pathway straight for Christ to "appear" to them.

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those (the unconverted Elect) who are waiting for him.

James adds this to what I stated above:

James 5:17 Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one turns him back; 20 Let him know, that he which turns a sinner (apostate believer) from the error of his way shall save their soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Do you understand why James mentions Elijah in this scripture and why he mentions Elijah's 3 1/2 years drought?

Understanding James' reason is vital in understanding the pathway to salvation that Christ causes His Elect to travel to their conversion/salvation.

The 3 1/2 years of drought begins for a new believer immediately after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit. It ends for them when Christ "comes again" and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (the Spirit of Truth). The time in between the two rains of the Spirit is called a time of "great tribulation" when the temple of God (the new believer) becomes desolate (A of D). This is the time when a believer becomes apostate by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. This type of believer is what makes the churches of the world "apostate". And as God's Word says, no one is spared from experiencing this "Day of Evil" when Satan governs them from "within". Only the second coming of Christ with the Latter Rain of the Spirit can turn a sinner from the error of their ways. For this reason, Christ will send a converted believer to a sinner with the call of repentance from works. This converted believer will come to the sinner in the spirit of Elijah. This is the work that the Lord has given me to do. Then, if the sinner is one of the Elect (Wise Virgins) and has received the Latter Rain of the Spirit from Christ, they will repent of their works and be restored by their faith. Their repentance will make Christ's pathway "straight" to come to them. Christ will then "appear" and "bring salvation to them" (Heb 9:28).

One other point: There are 3 1/2 years of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy remaining. The first 69 1/2 weeks of years was fulfilled under the Old Covenant and was literal time. After Christ was "cut off" at the cross, Christ began His New Covenant to complete the last 3 1/2 years of the prophecy. Since the New Covenant is spiritual, the remaining time is being fulfilled spiritually within each of the Elect. It is no longer literal time as when it was being fulfilled under the Old Covenant (rightly dividing the Word). And like Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought, Daniel's last 3 1/2 years of the prophecy begins when Christ gives a person the Early Rain of the Spirit. It ends when Christ returns and gives the believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit, immediately followed by judgment (this is conversion). After the Elect believer is converted, Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy is fulfilled for that person. After the last Elect person is converted in this age, Daniel's entire prophecy will be fulfilled.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (OT saints) and upon thy holy city (New Jerusalem/the Elect), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Whenever you see in scripture the spiritual symbols "time, times and a half, 3 1/2 years, 42 months, or 1260 days", know that the scripture is referring to the time an Elect believer spends in between the Early and Latter Rains.

Joe