The Gospel of Reconciliation

[brightfame52]

There is no basis for coming to that conclusion. Moreover, given your interpretation, verse 20 which urges that one be reconciled to God makes absolutely no sense. According to you Paul is speaking about only those who already are reconciled to God.

Duh 2 Cor 5:14,19 are the same context, the same people. Christ died for them and sins are not imputed to them, not ever because Christ took them away and reconciled them to God 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[brightfame52]

Who on earth said it did apply to those who believe on JESUS the CHRIST . it applies to those WHO wont come to believe on HIM
You overthink things and through the doctrines of calvin are not seeing the simple truth anymore .
TIME we got up and start preaching the SIMPLE message of the gospel again .
TIME to remind about the dire need to believe on JESUS the CHRIST .
And to do as did the true ones and warn those who reject HIM of the dire wrath they are reaping upon themselves .
Lets kick calvin and other doctrines out and lets make bibical doctrine great again in the churches .

You sound super confused

 

[Rightglory]

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited.

The point of the text is that IF GOD WOULD HAVE JUDGED MANKIND, HE WOULD NOT HAVE COME. He overlooked their sins and came to redeem mankind from death and sin. That is what Rom 5:10 is saying. While mankind was still in their sins, Christ came. He did not forgive sins. No sin has ever been forgiven by Christ except that a person seeks forgiveness. If there is no repentance and confession of sin, there is NO FORGIVENESS.
You have a very distorted understanding of scripture. Any limitation upon Christ's work makes Christ worthless and just another good man. It also keeps you under the curse of death permanently, dust to dust. Scripture speaks of all the dead arising in the last day because Christ defeated death, yet your philosophy says that Christ did not defeat death, therefore there is no resurrection of the dead in the last day. You need to deny some very simple concepts of scripture to promote a false theory.
The fact that you cannot support your view with any other texts of scripture speaks volumes to its errancy.

 

[brightfame52]

The point of the text is that IF GOD WOULD HAVE JUDGED MANKIND, HE WOULD NOT HAVE COME. He overlooked their sins and came to redeem mankind from death and sin. That is what Rom 5:10 is saying. While mankind was still in their sins, Christ came. He did not forgive sins. No sin has ever been forgiven by Christ except that a person seeks forgiveness. If there is no repentance and confession of sin, there is NO FORGIVENESS.
You have a very distorted understanding of scripture. Any limitation upon Christ's work makes Christ worthless and just another good man. It also keeps you under the curse of death permanently, dust to dust. Scripture speaks of all the dead arising in the last day because Christ defeated death, yet your philosophy says that Christ did not defeat death, therefore there is no resurrection of the dead in the last day. You need to deny some very simple concepts of scripture to promote a false theory.
The fact that you cannot support your view with any other texts of scripture speaks volumes to its errancy.

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited.

 

[Rightglory]

Duh 2 Cor 5:14,19 are the same context, the same people. Christ died for them and sins are not imputed to them, not ever because Christ took them away and reconciled them to God 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

JBO points out a huge disconnect in your statement, a contradiction and you just double down on your ignorance of the text and context.
Vs 19 states Christ was reconciling the world. That is all human beings, as well as the world itself. Because He has reconciled mankind, defeated death for all, and gives life to all mankind again, He is calling all men to repentance.
Vs 20 Paul is exhorting those who desire to become believers to reconcile themselves to God. A person does that by faith, repentance, baptism and becomes a member of His Kingdom.

It is totally illogical to say that Vs 19 within your interpretation makes all the elect reconciled to God, and I have no idea what that actually means within your view since you have never fleshed out that meaning, then say those same elect who you say were reconciled to God, now are being directed to reconcile themselves to God. In your view, why is that necessary?

 

[Rightglory]

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited.

So you keep saying this but cannot put forth any scriptural evidence to support your theory. Saying if often does not make it true. It shows your ignorance of the topic at hand. It might behoove you to use historical evidence to support it, if there is any.

 

[brightfame52]

JBO points out a huge disconnect in your statement, a contradiction and you just double down on your ignorance of the text and context.
Vs 19 states Christ was reconciling the world. That is all human beings, as well as the world itself. Because He has reconciled mankind, defeated death for all, and gives life to all mankind again, He is calling all men to repentance.
Vs 20 Paul is exhorting those who desire to become believers to reconcile themselves to God. A person does that by faith, repentance, baptism and becomes a member of His Kingdom.

It is totally illogical to say that Vs 19 within your interpretation makes all the elect reconciled to God, and I have no idea what that actually means within your view since you have never fleshed out that meaning, then say those same elect who you say were reconciled to God, now are being directed to reconcile themselves to God. In your view, why is that necessary?

Duh 2 Cor 5:14,19 are the same context, the same people. Christ died for them and sins are not imputed to them, not ever because Christ took them away and reconciled them to God 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[brightfame52]

So you keep saying this but cannot put forth any scriptural evidence to support your theory. Saying if often does not make it true. It shows your ignorance of the topic at hand. It might behoove you to use historical evidence to support it, if there is any.

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited.

 

[Rightglory]

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited.

Twice you double down on your own interpretation which has been shown to be in error. Even a fifth grader would pause and take stock and find out why others think he was wrong. Besides it being theologically unsound, scripturally nonexistent, it is not logical within your own view.
You seem unable to even explain how or why that contradiction exists in your view. You just ignore everything and just repeat your responses. Another cotradiction to your view is also present. You believe a person cannot act on his own in relation to God. So, here is Paul exhorting people in his audience, those that read that text today, to reconcile themselves to God. Nowwithstanding I told you what it means, how do you explain it within your interpretation and your understanding of what a person can do?
Does Calvin explain this contradictions?

 

[brightfame52]

Twice you double down on your own interpretation which has been shown to be in error. Even a fifth grader would pause and take stock and find out why others think he was wrong. Besides it being theologically unsound, scripturally nonexistent, it is not logical within your own view.
You seem unable to even explain how or why that contradiction exists in your view. You just ignore everything and just repeat your responses. Another cotradiction to your view is also present. You believe a person cannot act on his own in relation to God. So, here is Paul exhorting people in his audience, those that read that text today, to reconcile themselves to God. Nowwithstanding I told you what it means, how do you explain it within your interpretation and your understanding of what a person can do?
Does Calvin explain this contradictions?

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited. BTW Non imputation of sin and forgiveness of sin are one and the same Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[gordon7]

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited. BTW Non imputation of sin and forgiveness of sin are one and the same Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Who else is blessed ?


Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.




What about the ones who are the OPPOSITE, to poor in spirit, not thirsting for righteousness, not meek ( exaltation/when all men speak well of you.) ?



Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Luke 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

[gordon7]

More of the word of reconciliation ?

 

[gordon7]

You have 57 pages of debate, what did you accomplish people ?

So very simple and good to set things straighter.

Jesus Christ had to come in the flesh to destroy the one who had the power of death to deliver man in bondage fearing death.

Jesus did not take on Himself the nature of angels, but the seed of Abraham, to be made like unto HIs brothers, to be a merciful and FAITHFUL High priest. ( to make reconciliation for the sins of the people/who were all their lifetime subject to bondage)

In the form of God/equal with God, not made of any reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, made in the likeness of men, found in fashion as a man He HUMBLED Himself, and became obedient to the death of the cross, and so God HIGHLTY EXALTS HIM, giving Him the name above EVERY NAME.

Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Obeying and working out that salvation with fear and trembling, no DISPUTING, ( 57 pages of dispute in this thread) THAT YOU MAY BE THE SONS OF GOD WITHOUT REBUKE.

Holding forth the word of life, so the preaching ( from the apostles of the Lord) was not in vain.( for those who do not believe in and follow after righteousness.)..



Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

 

[brightfame52]

According to Rom 5:10 what was it that reconciled believers to God? 24

 

[gordon7]

Reconciliation to God is not through these people that seduce us..


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[brightfame52]

Who else is blessed ?


Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.




What about the ones who are the OPPOSITE, to poor in spirit, not thirsting for righteousness, not meek ( exaltation/when all men speak well of you.) ?



Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Luke 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

This thread is about reconciliation friend. Thanks for your input. The point however is them in 2 Cor 5:19 the world, is limited to the elect since the world there, none of them have their sins charged to them, and that's a Great Blessing which constitutes them forgiven of all sin.

 

[gordon7]

This thread is about reconciliation friend. Thanks for your input. The point however is them in 2 Cor 5:19 the world, is limited to the elect since the world there, none of them have their sins charged to them, and that's a Great Blessing which constitutes them forgiven of all sin.

Elect being meek, lowly, and humble.


Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[Rightglory]

Thats the elect of the world, God doesnt charge them with sin, so they are all justified and forgiven 2 Cor 5:19

The one thing you have correct here is that those Christ reconciled were justified. The words have the same meaning. However sins were not forgiven. Again reconcile, justify, made righteous does not mean forgiveness of sin. If you balance your checkbook with a bank statement are reconciling them, or forgiving them their sins.

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So that proves its limited. BTW Non imputation of sin and forgiveness of sin are one and the same Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Earlier I gave you the definition of impute and you still do not understand what the word means. If you have difficulty in understanding words, use a dictionary. Not Impute and forgiveness of sin is NOT the same thing.
While you're at it check out what the word "world" means. It NEVER means elect.

 

[JBO]

The one thing you have correct here is that those Christ reconciled were justified. The words have the same meaning. However sins were not forgiven. Again reconcile, justify, made righteous does not mean forgiveness of sin. If you balance your checkbook with a bank statement are reconciling them, or forgiving them their sins.

If one has been justified, then his sins have been forgiven. There is no condition of being justified and not being forgiven. They are essentially, though not precisely, the same thing. Strictly speaking, when God justifies a person, He is declaring no punishment for that person. To be justified is to be declared righteous which necessitates being forgiven.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We cannot reconcile ourselves to God by works, laws or religion. The Catholic church cannot reconcile anyone to God. If you believe that it can, you have been deceived. Many believe that they can reconcile themselves to God by keeping the commandments. Others believe that they can reconcile themselves to God by living holy lives. If you believe that you can do something or become something that will reconcile you into God, you have been deceived.

Why is this so? It is so, because we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. Multitudes are trying to do in their flesh through works, laws and religion what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ.

"God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Before we were ever born Jesus had ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God. This is the good news of the Gospel. God now stands before us with open arms saying... "Though your sins be as scarlet, they can be as white as snow" Isaiah 1:18. God offers reconciliation to everyone that wants it. If you don't want to be reconciled unto God, you don't have to. God is not going to threaten you. It's your choice.

Those that have rejected God's offer of reconciliation through Jesus Christ and are trying to reconcile themselves to God through works, laws and religion are still enemies with God. When they die in their sins, they will go into the judgment and be judged and condemned. God has done all that he can do to save us and reconcile us to himself through Jesus Christ. All that we have to do to be saved is to accept our reconciler, who is Jesus Christ and God's offer to be reconciled.

Great topic ... glad you brought it up.
Being reconciled back to God through Christ is our purpose in life. I have been saying that for years. I agree with most of what you said but have a few reservations about your condemnation against Catholics.
>> Being drawn to, joined and united with God, however the circumstance _ in whatever church your in _ is accomplished by God. Since Jesus is the AUTHOR of our faith, all credit goes out to Him.
That said, how Christians interpret how their salvation is accomplished, is a mixed bag. Catholics may be somewhat legalistic, (having a faith + works mindset), but they are nevertheless joined with Christ. Just because we error in our understanding, doesn't mean God is not working in our lives - authoring our faith.
The Pharisees believed in a works salvation - but most of them were not believers of Christ, therefore not joined to Christ, not reconciled to the Father, so they will be judged by the Law since they lived by it ( or tried to).
All believers in Christ will be saved that is what Jesus said. However, belief is not just an idea or thought, it is a way of life. We are being transformed in the renewing of our minds and therefore, that influences our behavior. If you believe in Christ, you will do what He says.
You believe, you obey. If you keep living the way you want to and there is no change in your life, though say claim to believe, you are a liar and or just deceived.